Are All “Christians” Christian?

[JcBoY]

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Oh what happen in this thread? I thought this is all about Christians!

[noy]

Assalamualaikum
There's an online Qur'an btw The Noble Qur'an (chapter 19 is Maryam and Jesus)

thanks sis, i'll check that out..i've always wanted to know what does quran say about Jesus..

[noy]

Oh what happen in this thread? I thought this is all about Christians!

hehehe..well it took a little side trip... giunhan man ni heliopause ug labelleza..hehehe..

[heliopause]

@labelleza
Sensya na sis, it’s awkward to argue with a chixJ but for the sake of discussion I have to share also.

No, the most important thing is to have God in our lives. Of course prayers are done wilfully. We don't pray for His benefit, it is US that needs HIM. Jesus is the Messiah and without him, we would not be Muslim.

In my opinion I think Jesus teachings is incompatible with Mohammed’s. You know why? Just by looking on what’s the greatest commandment that Jesus taught.

To love the Lord your God with all your soul, mind and strength and to love thy neighbor as thyself (Matt. 22:37)

Love and forgiveness is what shapes christianity. That is why peace, joy, contentment, positive ones is central to the life of Christians while hate, revenge, fear, negative values is peripheral. This is not the thing that shapes Islam.

Jesus pbuh is seen as Divine in Christianity because he was born without a father (God said "Kun faya kun" meaning "be, and it is"). Now we know that Adam and Eve were born without a father NOR mother, wouldn't that make them even more Divine?

Even a child can answer that simple question why Adam and Eve don’t have a mother and father. How come they’d have parents if they’re the first human?

Adam sinned, how could we consider him more divine than Jesus?

Ro:5:12: Wherefore, as by one man (Adam) sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

How about Jesus, did he ever commit sin?

2Co:5:21: For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
1Pe:2:22: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
Heb:7:26: For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
1Jo:3:4.5 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Heb:4:15: For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

No where does the Bible say Jesus sinned. Over and over again the Bible tells us the Jesus was completely without sin. When Jesus went to the cross he was taking the punishment for our sins. He was completely innocent. He had no sin. He died for one reason only, so that our sins could be forgiven. He took the punishment we deserve. That’s the thing we need to understand why he was sent. God didn’t send him for the same reason as with rest of the prophets.

God does not beget!

Lewis understands more theology (the science of God) in Christianity. He says: - I believe in God like I believe in the sun, not because I can see it, but because of it I see everything else.

In the book of Isaiah 9:6, it says:
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be
upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The
mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Let me quote directly from CS Lewis that you may understand better:

We don't use the words begetting or begotten much in modern English, but everyone still knows what they mean. To beget is to become the father of: to create is to make. And the difference is this. When you beget, you beget something of the same kind as yourself. A man begets human babies, a beaver begets little beavers and a bird begets eggs which turn into little birds. But when you make, you make something of a different kind from yourself. A bird makes a nest, a beaver builds a dam, a man makes a wireless set-or he may make something more like himself than a wireless set : say, a statue. If he is a clever enough carver he may make a statue which is very like a man indeed. But, of course, it is not a real man; it only looks like one. It cannot breathe or think. It is not alive.

Now that is the first thing to get clear. What God begets is God; just as what man begets is man. What God creates is not God; just as what man makes is not man. That is why men are not Sons of God in the sense that Christ is. They may be like God in certain ways, but they are not things of the same kind. They are more like statues or pictures of God.

Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis

Remember the Ten Commandments of Moses pbuh. The first commandment: "Hear ye O Israel, The Lord thy God is ONE". Jesus' job was to reinforce the law of Moses (The 10 Commandments) as they (the Israelites) were going astray and not to start a new religion. Muhammad pbuh is in the Bible too. Jesus told of the coming of a comforter after him (Muhammad) who (in John 16:13) "will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come". Jesus said that! Muhammad pbuh was chosen to remind and reinforce the same teachings of the prophets before him.

Again, it’s a different teaching. Mohammed has no knowledge about the Holy Spirit. His concept of the trinity was God the Father, Mary and Jesus which was probably prevalent in his time. The pentecost was already explained by @noy so no need to explain further. If you said you acknowledge Moses and the 10 commandments why would you not follow Judaism if your point is to believe in one God? How about this one sis, is it acceptable to do shahada accepting only Allah and not Mohammed (pbuh)? It's almost the same logic say if you'll reject the concept of the trinity but associating the prophet mohammed with Allah in your shahada confession.

The books written about Jesus were written 90-100 years after Jesus. One of the concepts that Saul/Paul introduced for his "new Jesus" was that: he died on the cross to wash eternal sins of the children of Adam. A new covenant was created by Paul who said they did not have to observe the Sabbath which is one of the Ten Commandments. That's why Christians now worship on Sundays. Constantine (Emperor of Rome) worshipped on Sunday because the Romans and the Greeks prayed to the Sun-god. They also believed in the Moon-god (Monday), Thor (Thursday) etc. Gods of the Romans. Before this, worship was on the Sabbath.

Excluding all the pagan and cult religions, you cannot see any Christian groups that will resort to a bloody war.

Paul had a very high standing and an active member of the Sanhedrin. He persecuted and killed Christians before he was converted. One day on his way to Damascus he encountered the resurrected Christ in a glorious light which caused him to fall on the ground. From that moment, his life was totally changed. Do not think that he was just an ordinary man who conspired to create a brand new religion. Apostles already have propagated the gospel before Paul’s conversion.

He warns the Christian believers about those who will preach another gospel:

Ga:1:7: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Ga:1:8: But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Ga:1:9: As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Ga:1:12: For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Christianity spreads throughout the cruel Roman Empire by the blood of the martyrs, it’s the power of the Holy Spirit who strengthened them. Islam spreads in Arabia and part of Africa through bloody means of a sword. Now, you can see the difference.

Now, Jesus was allegedly crucified on "Good Friday" in the afternoon which for Jewish people is Saturday or the "Sabbath" and on Sabbath, persecution or crucifixion is not allowed. It would have taken him around 3 days to die coz they only drove nails through his hands and his feet. He was left to be humiliated, tortured and die a slow, painful death. How can someone die on the cross before sunset? Also it says, after he died allegedly, a Roman soldier stuck a spear in his side and water/blood came out. But if someone is dead, the heart wouldn't be pumping any water/blood right?

This is a broad topic sis.

Muslims believe that Jesus was:
- The son of Mary (born of a virgin), The Messiah, The Word of God, The Spirit of God. All of these attributes does not belong to Mohammed.

The Qur'an states that God saved Jesus and raised him up to Him until his return. The Qur'an is telling the truth. In the words of Shaykh Khalid Yasin, it's not "crucifixion" it's "cruci-FICTION".

This is for you to consider, Is Mohammed more knowledgeable of the events that took place than the first century Roman, Jewish, Christian writers and historians who agreed that Jesus existed and was crucified by Pontius Pilate? If they were true as well as the apostles and the rest of 500 disciples as witnesses, then we could say that the Quran is a fiction book conspired by the haters of Isaac’s seeds.

We are just a follower of both beliefs which are passed down to our generations. All these arguments are only expressions of what we learned. Let's not take it personally but a friendly and nice give and take of our limited knowledge..hehe. Salaam!

[JcBoY]

This is a broad topic sis.

That's because you made the faith in God, complicated!

Muslims believe that Jesus was:
- The son of Mary (born of a virgin), The Messiah, The Word of God, The Spirit of God. All of these attributes does not belong to Mohammed.

Then why would you compare the two when we Muslims doesn't make any distinction about them? We both believed them as a prophets and you believed Prophet Jesus(as) as God! compare to Prophet Muhammad where the Muslims believed him only as prophet? Cleary you are astray dong!

As Muslim, one of our FUNDAMENTAL/ROOT/PILLAR of FAITH is to BELIEVE in the PROPHETS of GOD! In the Qur'an we are commanded by Allah to say;

Say ye: "We believe in Allah and the revelation given to us and to Abraham Isma`il Isaac Jacob and the Tribes and that given to Moses and Jesus and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord we make no difference between one and another of them and we bow to Allah (in Islam)." Qur'an 2:136

With Allah's infinite mercy he has brought forth to us prophets, personalities, persons who can be our guide, who can be our teachers one who's gonna teach us of what is wrong and what is right. We don't believed in anything that is CREATED as GOD, we don't worship prophets as God! That you have to understand, you keep on pushing/shoving your belief without questioning it that YOU BELIEVED IN a CREATED BEING! It's a shame on your part dong.

For Islam is a religion of Peace that spreads by itself because of its fundamental basis by which is LOGIC OF PURE MONOTHEISM defies every concocted LIES on earth. Where people have to say that we inherit the sin of someone or something is cooked up as the son or as a daughter or having relations or etc. THE HUMAN MIND SAYS THAT CANNOT BE!

So in ISLAM we don't have to argue about the CONCEPT OF GOD and THE CONCEPT OF PROPHETHOOD.

Again when we Muslims say, "THERE IS NO GOD...BUT ALLAH and ABRAHAM, NOAH, MOSES, DAVID, JESUS, MOSES and the LAST of THEM ALL MUHAMMAD are prophets of ALLAH", that is PERIOD, but if you keep on saying to us MUSLIMS that Jesus is GOD you sounds to us as a BROKEN RECORDS that need to be put in the TRASH BIN.

[heliopause]

@jcboy

Truth is the most important thing in this world. Let us discuss with civility and respect if we claim to have the truth. Do not get agitated coz we are simply sharing our limited knowledge here. Our words are not the conclusion of the matter.

I would like to ask you if what you claimed is true. And I need your humble explaination not a harsh words.
How would you justify this one if you said you're a peaceful religion?

The Religion of Peace! MUST WATCH!! - YouTube

[JcBoY]

@jcboy

Truth is the most important thing in this world. Let us discuss with civility and respect if we claim to have the truth. Do not get agitated coz we are simply sharing our limited knowledge here. Our words are not the conclusion of the matter.

I would like to ask you if what you claimed is true. And I need your humble explaination not a harsh words.
How would you justify this one if you said you're a peaceful religion?

The Religion of Peace! MUST WATCH!! - YouTube

@heliopause a.k.a. santopaps/blutors/wordofgod/marine77/wormwoods

You are just as stubborn as your banned usernames. You don't understand a SIMPLE statement that DEFIES your CONCOCTED LIES, WE MUSLIMS do not worship a CREATED BEING like prophets as God! WE BELIEVE THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD and that is ALLAH the ALMIGHTY! Even CHILDREN understand that, don't make it complicated! If you want to hijack this thread to promote your LIES then maayo pa E-CLOSE ni sa mga MODS!

[heliopause]

Truth withstands in any tests. You don't have to be afraid with any scrutiny if you have it. If you cannot answer plainly no problem but refrain from telling harsh or insulting words to any person just because you run out of good explainations.

by the way, you need christ too to change your life which you think impossible for you!

peace bro. let's proceed with the topic. sorry for digressing too.

[noy]

@jcboy, btaw brad, relax lang ta..hehehe pasensyahi lang pud si brad heliopause, nag explain raman pud sya regarding sa amu faith..
@heliopause, murag wala naman ta sa topic brad? hehehe

[heliopause]

@jcboy, btaw brad, relax lang ta..hehehe pasensyahi lang pud si brad heliopause, nag explain raman pud sya regarding sa amu faith..
@heliopause, murag wala naman ta sa topic brad? hehehe

mao bitaw brod, sorry. nilikoy gamay. naglami man gud among discussion ni @labelleza kay mas mo explain paman siya maayo.