r u sure ur save....?

[rcruman]

Yes, i believe that aionios should be translated as eternal not everlasting. unsa man diay ako isulti nimo ang wala nako tuhu-i?

Try to analyze your statement, "i believe" is your own.

Like this, this is your own statement:
Eternal means no beginning no end.
Everlasting life has a point of beginning and no ending.

The problem with your belief, you assumed that you have eternal life .

When you read the word "saved" it means your save already and have eternal life.
My argument with you, saved from what?
When I've quoted Hebrews 6:4-6, you've interpreted it with professing christians which is clear that those people has been enlightened.
Are Christians not enlightened?
Your twisting the verse just to claim that you've eternal life already.

My friend the word of God is the truth but if you don't continue how could you have eternal life?
Your belief is dangerous because you're not afraid anymore to do things because you're saved already.

PEace!

[Sinyalan]

The problem with your belief, you assumed that you have eternal life .

How about your belief brod, don't you assume that you have eternal life?

When you read the word "saved" it means your save already and have eternal life.
My argument with you, saved from what?
When I've quoted Hebrews 6:4-6, you've interpreted it with professing christians which is clear that those people has been enlightened.
Are Christians not enlightened?
Your twisting the verse just to claim that you've eternal life already.

My friend the word of God is the truth but if you don't continue how could you have eternal life?
Your belief is dangerous because you're not afraid anymore to do things because you're saved already.

I don't see any logic in here? Can anyone share some thoughts if this a logical observation or not? as if the responses are against and then not against... makalibog.

[thinkrich]

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

save from sins or it means eternal life?

PEace!

correct me if im wrong..but dba when u are saved, it means na your sins are forgiven..doesnt it also follow that you have eternal life? isnt it impossible nga God will say you have been saved through faith and yet the judgement He'll pass is eternal damnation?

[Ironside]

rcruman yours in bold italics

First, let it be known that even mr. Soriano believes that eternal life is a present possesiion of Christians. I heard that in your Pasalamat in Mandaue way back around 2000 or 2001. that truth was even new to him back then. He based that on the word "HAVE" or was it "HAS" in the gospel of John. One of those verses i quoted to you.



Try to analyze your statement, "i believe" is your own.


Do not just analyze solely the words "i believe" my friend. Understand it within the words in which it is couched.


Like this, this is your own statement:
Eternal means no beginning no end.
Everlasting life has a point of beginning and no ending.


yes, eternal and everlasting have a slight difference in meaning. Just like the words: continuous and continuing.


continuing - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

continuous -------------------------------------------------------------------------------





The problem with your belief, you assumed that you have eternal life .


John told me so:


1Jo 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.


To whom is the book of 1st John written?



".......These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God,......"


note: Believe there means to trust and rely on the Son of God for salvation [nothing and no one else.]


What is one of the purposes why he wrote them this book?


1Jo 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.



Ah so if I am a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, i HAVE eternal life. Okay



What about other portions of the Bible which tells us that eternal life is yet future? Are they contrary to this verse?


No. they are not contradictions to this verse. They are complementary. It tells us more about eternal life. That eternal life is a present possession yet it also has a future aspect. Fuller experience of eternal life will take place when the believers body will be transformed unto the likeness of the risen Savior.


Eternal life is actually a person. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself. If the Lord Jesus Christ dwells in you, you have eternal life.


1Jo 1:2 (and the life was revealed, and we have seen, and testify, and declare to you the life, the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was revealed to us);


1Jo 5:11 The testimony is this, that God gave to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.


1Jo 5:12 He who has the Son has the life. He who doesn't have God's Son doesn't have the life.


When will the fuller manifestation of eternal life be experinced?



When the Savior comes again on earth in His glorified body to take His people




1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it is not yet revealed what we will be. But we know that, when he is revealed, we will be like him; for we will see him just as he is.


Php 3:21 who will change the body of our humiliation to be conformed to the body of his glory, according to the working by which he is able even to subject all things to himself.




When you read the word "saved" it means your save already and have eternal life.
My argument with you, saved from what?


saved from the penalty, power and presence of sin [at glorification]

Go to Arts and Literature. look for Gospel Hall, Then click on page 1. Then read SO GREAT A SALVATION.







When I've quoted Hebrews 6:4-6, you've interpreted it with professing christians which is clear that those people has been enlightened.


it is clear that they are professing Christians based on the key verse. verse 9:



After writing verses 4-8: notice he keeps on using third person pronouns in these verses: THEY, THOSE, THEM. NOT "YOU" [REFERRING TO THE ORIGINAL READERS OF THIS LETTER WAY BACK IN THE FIRST CENTURY.]

Heb 6:4 For concerning those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, Heb 6:5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, Heb 6:6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify the Son of God for themselves again, and put him to open shame


He then uses an illustration in farming:


Heb 6:7 For the land which has drunk the rain that comes often on it, and brings forth a crop suitable for them for whose sake it is also tilled, receives blessing from God;Heb 6:8 but if it bears thorns and thistles, it is rejected and near being cursed, whose end is to be burned.


The land recieves the same rain, the land had been tilled and yet at harverst time only one part of it bears fruit and the other part remains barren after all it recieved<---------a land which deserved to be burned.


There are people who are like Judas, they've seen the Light but they rejected it, who performed miracles, expelled demons through the power of the Holy Spirit, tasted the good Word of God from the lips of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. Yet, they remain uncoverted. They may stay in the Christian fellowship for a time but they will show their true colors sooner of later by apostatizing from the faith. "whose end is to be burned."


it is possible to have enlightenment but not come to the understanding of the knowledge of the truth.

2Ti 3:7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.


possible to have enlightenment through hearing the Word of God and yet reject that light

Ps 119:130 The entrance of Your words gives light; It gives understanding to the simple.

Joh 1:5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.


BUT HIS READERS ARE NOT LIKE THAT EVEN THOUGH THE WRITER PENS THOSE VERSES UP THERE. NO, HE IS PERSUADED OF BETTER THINGS CONCERNING THEIR STATE. THINGS THAT ACCOMPANY SALVATION AND NOT CONDEMNATION. THEY ARE NOT LIKE THE LAND IN HIS ILLUSTRATION THAT DOES NOT BEAR FRUIT AND DESERVED TO BE BURNED, THEY ARE REAL CHRISTIANS:


Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded of better things for you, and things that accompany salvation, even though we speak like this.[/

Look at their fruit verse 10:

Heb 6:10 For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister.


They are real Christians not just professing Christians.

[Ironside]

rcruman yours in bold italics

Your belief is dangerous because you're not afraid anymore to do things because you're saved already.


Ro 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?


The apostle Paul preached salvation by grace not of works.....and so his hearers misunderstood him: "if salvation is by grace then shall we continue doing sin?...that's the logical outcome of your preaching..."


That's why it is not surprising that we have this verse in our Bibles. Paul echoing the objection of his opponents:

Ro 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?

if Paul taught that sinners would be saved through works, this objection here restated by Paul from the lips of his objectors would not arise. But since they understood Paul's message that salvation is through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ not through works they said in effect through this words:


"Paul your doctrine of salvation promotes sin.....what about the moral teachings and directives in Scripture for godly living?"


To answer this objection, Paul now embarks on the second aspect of salvation namely sanctification.

From Romans 1-3, he wrote that man is a sinner and in need of salvation.

From Romans 3-4, he stated where can this salvation be found-in Jesus work alone not from us.

In Romans 5 he stated our identification with the sin of Adam. When Adam sinned, we sinned in him.

In Romans 6 he answered the charge of antinomianism leveled at his doctrine of free salvation by grace as stated above.


here look at the charge to Pauls doctrine of the free offer of salvation:

Ro 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?

It's like saying: "what since that is the case, if that is true that salvation is by the free offer of the gospel not through good works and law-keeping, shall we then continue sinning, since it's by grace that we are saved and not through good works or law-keeping?"

Paul would then explain no. Salvation by grace does not promote sin. You see salvation has three aspects, if you have read the previous chapters of my letter, first salvation is being saved from a) the penalty of sin [read Romans 3-4]. Second salvation is being saved from b) the power of sin [Romans 6] and lastly, salvation is being freed from c) the presence of sin itself "when the sons of God will be revealed [read Romans 8]


Imagine a bad tree. Naturally bad trees do not bear good fruits right? One day the owner visited his plantation and noticed this particular tree that for years it has used up space and land area without bearing fruit. It just stood there for nothing. And so the owner decided to cut down the tree and throw it into the fire.

But one of his workers said: "Sir can you leave it for sometime. i'll do anything to make the tree good. The owner consented and gave him permission to do his plans.
[the tree was saved from the penalty of being thrown into the fire]

Now what would the worker do? Would he just tie good fruits into the branches of the tree so that it will become a good tree? No. the tree is controlled by the rotten nature that has got into it that's why it bears bad fruits. What he will do is that he will deal with this rotten nature [That's Romans 6] that the tree will be good and bear delictable fruits for the owner.


Mt 12:33 "Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit.


Putting good fruits on the branches of a bad tree doesn't make that bad tree good. We must deal with the heart issue. We must make the bad tree good from the roots. And that's what Jesus did on the cross. He did not only die for our sins, He also died to sin. [note: We commit acts of sins because we have sin in us. SINS the fruit. SIN the root]

And so will a sinner saved by grace alone and not through works continue in sin? No. His heart will be sooo changed that He obeys Christ and His commandments:


Eze 36:26 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

27 "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.


And that's what Paul here is saying in Romans 6. Here continue reading it:


Ro 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?

2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

In Christ death the rotten nature inside of us was put away positionally.


Ro 6:4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Those who are saved by grace alone will be changed and walked a new life for God.

Ro 6:6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

Our old self [our old man rotten by sin] was crucified with Christ [read verse 6 again above]
that the power of sin which gripped us is broken. Sinners saved by grace alone become freed from sin.

Remember: if the Son sets you free [from sin, the Lord was talking about sin when He uttered these words], you shall be free indeed? Paul in Romans 6 is echoing that statement and amplified it.


We are not saved BY good works, no we are saved by Christ FOR GOOD WORKS.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.


To recieve this wonderful salvation offered by Christ, shall i obtained it by relying on my good works and law keeping? No. Our motive in Law keeping and doing good works should not be that we will be saved. Thats the Lord's work alone. My motive in doing good works is to show my gratitude and appreciation of what Christ has done eternally for me.

[jofox]

Nope nobody know or can assure we are save!
During the judgement day! We human being we are judge not from our religion but what we did on earth. But God warn us to repent our sins and do what he want you to do. Even there is no religion we have our own way of judging.

[junmar4]

Nope nobody know or can assure we are save!
During the judgement day! We human being we are judge not from our religion but what we did on earth. But God warn us to repent our sins and do what he want you to do. Even there is no religion we have our own way of judging.

We are assured na bai. For it is by grace we have been saved, no by works, so that no one will boast. Ep 2:8-9
I agree nga walay religion nga makasave kay ang relationship nimo with Christ is personal...

[bcasabee]

inyo rang kaugalingon maka tubag ana......as far as i know.....gibuhat na tanan ni Jesus Christ para ma save ang tawo.....ang tawo ray iyang gihuwat nga mo avail sa iyang special offer..........

[thinkrich]

just want to add another verse which i believe is complimentary to this one to make it more complete...

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.


additional verse:
James 2:14-26
Faith and Deeds
14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,"[e] and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.


thus, para lang nako, it is by our faith that we are saved..and our actions must be consistent with the faith that we are professing. from James 2:22 "...and his faith was made complete by what he did"

[Ironside]

to add further details. let me share what i wrote in a Singaporean forum.


Someone wrote this there to me:


James 2:21-24 (NIV): "Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, 'Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,' and he was called God's friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone."

The problem with your position is that a few bible verses could be thrown and ur very extreme stance will fall apart. I personally do not hold to the doctrine of salvation by the intellectual belief of Christ"




my reply:


NO one gets saved by having a belief in the Savior. Faith does not mean belief. It goes deeper than that. Faith means to trust, to rely. [see Faith and Belief: The difference page 1 in Gospel Hall] https://www.istorya.net/forums/index.php?topic=82388.0




about James 2:24.


There are six aspects of justification:

1) Justified by Grace

Ro 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,


2) Justified by Faith

Ro 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

3) Justified by power [as exerted in the resurrection of Christ

Ro 4:25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification

4) Justified by God

Ro 8:33 Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.


5) Justified by Christ’s blood

Ro 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

6) Justified by works

Jas 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.



Question: There are six aspects of justification, how do we put these together in a cohesive whole?

This: We are declared perfectly righteous by God by grace through receiving it by faith alone based on the blood of the Savior shed on the cross, through the power of God as exerted in the resurrection of Christ manifested to men by works.


Two Justifications : Before God and before men.


Study James in context and you will see that James is talking about the latter. James has this idea:


Jas 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works [in the eyes of men], and not by [profession of] faith only.


NOTE verse 18 and know that the word "SAY" there is emphatic in the original. that should help you see clearly what James is saying in these verses