r u sure ur save....?

[Streetcar]

sa akong observation, catholics are not very good in depending their faith or even know the bible that well compared to Christians. I respect everyone's religion but for a fact ang mga Christians have strong views about catholics they even say the mass at church is so ritual na and prayers and hymns are sounding like blah, blah, blah which for me makasakit baya sab because catholics dont have much to say about them baya. They should realize where they came from too and at that baptized as catholics to start with. It boils down to respect lang tana for everyone's faith or belief no matter kung unsa imo, di ba?
Wait, are catholics not christians? what do you mean by catholics aren't good in depending their faith to God compared to christians? Kinsa man diay ning mga christians? You separated Christians and Catholics as apples and oranges - plus and negative, right or wrong, bad and good. The fact is kinsa man diay nihawa sa catholicism? mga tawo! not Christians because Catholics believe in God too. Catholics gave freedom to ones belief... unlike sa mga "christians" (to borrow your words) tanang earthly knowledge are nothing and worthless. mao na imong observation brod? If not, can you explain more about Christians versus Catholics faith?

Of course naman, we are all Christians but what i mean by that is born again? What do you call them then? those that have accepted Jesus as their personal saviour. Di ba Christians or born again? Those that do not believe in Saints and Mama Mary, those that do not like the cross. I have nothing against them and I am a catholic and will always stay a catholic. Its true each one has their own personal relationship with God and they say you should not pray to the Saints or some statues. Which in part i agree but its part of being a practicing catholic its been there since so for me there's nothing wrong with praying to saints and yes they act as intermediary between God and man and yes nothing wrong with praying directly to Jesus too but no you cannot sway me to convert any other way. Just where did everyone get their names from...di ba through catholic baptism?

[junmar4]

Sinyalan quoted and wrote:
Hangtud karon dunay tawo nga walay sala.

Which means.... no matter what brod, WE ALL ARE SINNERS... that includes you! or maybe you're not a sinner as oppossed to the statement you wrote.


Pag ingon nako nga hangtud karon dunay tawo nga walay sala kay ingon si junmar nga ang tawong walay sala sa panahon ra ni david.
But sa Ginoo hangtud karon dunay tawo nga walay sala, pero imo gitubag "WE all are sinners.. that includes you" off course we are all sinners but the bible says that there are people who are not sinners or who cannot commit sins.
I have my biblical source but you rely on your own brain.
Here's my source:
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
I John 3:9

Para sa Ginoo wala siyay sala, nya magboot pa gyud ta sa Ginoo.
Mao nay kapait sa tawo nga dili mutoo og biblia nya iya ra kaugalingon saligan.

Peace!

wala jud diay ka kasabot sa imo gipangyawyaw bai!!! kinsa daw tawo sa kalibutan bai nga pag-anak niya walay sala! Basin nakalimut ka nga tanang tawo naay sala nga panulundon. Unless dili nimo madawat si kristo, dili ka maluwas kay si kristo maoy maglimpyo sa mga sala nimo.

Kani pangutana tubaga, maluwas ba ang tawo nga walay baruganan? Wherein ultimo nga ngalan sa simbahan sige lang usab? Kung wala ka kahibawo sa storya ana, ako ihatag nimo. Kung dili ka motoo kay abi nimo INC ang source, then try to check sa SEC if dili ba tinuod. Because as said, dili maluwas ang tawo kung sayop ang simbahan.

In May of 1922, frustrated about not being ordained as a Minister of the Iglesia Ni Cristo, Teofilo Ora, Januario Ponce and Basilio Santiago gather some members of the INC and led a rebellion against its administration; they failed then establish their own church named Iglesia Verdadero de Cristo and was registered in Bureau of Trade and Commerce but after several months they changed their name to Iglesia ng Diyos kay Kristo Hesus. The same year Nicholas Perez became a member and preacher of this group after he was expelled from the INC for allegedly baptizing several people on Mabacao River, located at Maragondon, Cavite he even sent pictures as a proof of the event but later turned out that the people on the picture was not baptized at all and was just there for a picnic.



In 1928, Nicholas Perez became its General Evangelist and soon seeks the leadership of the group but was denied by Teofilo Ora.



In 1931, Nicholas Perez with Avelino Santiago then separate and start their own group they are known as Iglesia ng Diyos kay Cristo Hesus Haligi at Suhay ng Katotohanan. But some information from Eliseo Soriano himself came up that Nicholas Perez was already preaching this Church way back 1928 at Pulilan, Bulacan, this is still unclear since at this time Nicholas Perez is still with the Iglesia ng Diyos kay Kristo Hesus. Some other members of the Teofilo Ora led church, Iglesia ng Diyos kay Kristo Hesus also establish and registers their own Churches. Ponciano Bungay establishes Iglesia Ni Cristo sa Ibabaw ng Bato in 1932 while Basilio Santiago establishes Church of God in Christ Jesus in 1949 and Salvador Payawal establishes Kabanal-banalang Iglesia Ng Diyos.



But it was not until December 10, 1936, that the Church of Nicholas Perez, Iglesia ng Diyos kay Cristo Hesus Haligi at Suhay ng Katotohanan was officially registered to the Bureau of Commerce and Industry. But in 1954, Avelino Santiago, Nicholas Perez’ co-founder of Iglesia ng Diyos kay Cristo Hesus Haligi at Suhay ng Katotohanan leaves the group of and Establish his own church, Iglesia ng Diyos na Buhay kay Kristo Hesus.







In 1934, Triunfo Soriano and Catalina Fernando was baptized and became a member of the Nicholas Perez led church the Iglesia ng Diyos kay Cristo Hesus Haligi at Suhay ng Katotohanan, they are Eliseo F. Soriano’s parents.



Eliseo F. Soriano was born on 1947 and was Baptized on April 7, 1964, three (3) days after his 17th Bithday as member of the Nicolas Perez led Church. He studied the bible from Nicholas Perez and sometime in 1969 he received a title of Minister, making him the only minister in the Iglesia ng Dios kay Kristo Hesus, Haligi at Suhay ng Katotohanan at that time; rumor says that he will become the successor of Nicholas Perez. Nicholas Perez died in 1975.







After the death of Nicholas Perez, Eliseo Soriano signed on July 11, 1975 the appointment of Levita Gugulan (a woman) to lead the Iglesia ng Dios kay Kristo Hesus, Haligi at Suhay ng Katotohanan as the Church Presiding Minister. August 12, 1975 a month after Levita Gugulan’s appointment, he again signed a memorandum stating that anyone who opposes their Church administration will be suspended and expelled. Four (4) days after 5 members of their church some preachers were suspended.



The next year January 2, 1976, Eliseo Soriano was then appointed by Levita Gugulan as one of their church’s Board of Directors. They were fifteen (15) members of the Board. But on February 21, 1976, he was expelled together with sixteen (16) other members of the Iglesia ng Dios kay Kristo Hesus, Haligi at Suhay ng Katotohanan for inciting rebellion inside their church and teaching doctrines contrary to their beliefs he was the one on top of the list. Eliseo Soriano states that he firmly believes that a woman has no place to lead a church, in which he contradicted since he’s one of the signatories of the appointment months earlier. He also claims that he was not expelled but instead he voluntarily left his church.



On March 10, 1977, Eliseo Soriano registered his own group thru the help of Fermin Calma, they called it the Iglesia ng Dios kay Kristo Hesus, Haligi at Saligan ng Katotohanan. This means that since February 1976 to March 1977 he was a “colorum” and does not belong to any Church Organization. A year after (197 one of his members is Filomeno Hizon leaves him and separates his Church in two (2) groups, Filomeno Hizon establish the Mga Mananampalataya sa Iglesia ng Diyos Kay Kristo Hesus, Incorporated and was registered only on June 20, 1984 . While he registered a new Church name on December 31, 1977, it was called Church of God the Father in Christ Jesus the Pillar and Ground of Truth thru the help of Manoling Bacosa but was not able to use it.





It would look like that Eliseo Soriano just substitute Levita Gugulan’s “Suhay” to “Saligan”. So on July 16, 1979 a complaint was filed against the group of Eliseo Soriano by his former church led by Levita Gugulan under SEC Case No. 1774 for using a similar church name, While the case is in progress he managed to registered “another” church in January 20, 1980, "Ang mga Kaanib sa Iglesia ng Dios kay Kristo Hesus, Haligi at Saligan ng Katotohanan sa Bansang Pilipinas, Incorporated", SEC Reg. No. 92658.



In May 4, 1988 Eliseo Soriano’s group lost the 1979 case and was ordered by the SEC to change the name of his Church to another name not similar to any name already used, this decision was signed by the hearing office James Abugan . Eliseo Soriano’s group didn’t bother to appeal the case since he already registered a new one on 1980.



In 1993, Levita Gugulan’s successor Maximino Nieto finds out that Eliseo registered another church on 1980 with almost the same name again. Eliseo Soriano aware of this possibility registered “another” church, before Maximino Nieto’s group was able to file another complaint against him. It was December 15, 1993, when the Bayan ng Katotohanan Incorporated, SEC Reg. No. 93-005231 was registered with Eliseo Soriano as Presiding Minister and was refilled on December 17, 1993. The complaint was then filed by Maximino Nieto to the SEC office the following year in 1994 under SEC Case No. 94-4704, but again while the case still in progress Eliseo Soriano registers “another” church it was the Iglesia ni YHWH at ni YHWSA HMSYH, Inc, SEC Reg. No. 94-000703 in February 21, 1994.



The 1994 Case against Eliseo Soriano’s Church name was released on November 20, 1995. Eliseo Soriano’s group lost and was ordered again to change its church name not similar or identical to a name already in use, the decision was signed by the hearing office Ysobel Yasay Murillo. Still wanting the Church name that his mentor established Eliseo Soriano’s file an appeal on December 28, 1995 for the November 1995 decision of the 1994 case, but looses the case again after the Associate Justices in Court of Appeals, Manila; Cancio Garcia, Delillah Vidallon Magtolis and Marina Buzon denied his appeal on October 7, 1997. Appeal after appeal it was finalized in year 2001 by order of the Supreme Court of the Philippines to change its name.



Eliseo Soriano don’t have any choice but to change its name and use the “Bayan ng Katotohanan” and the “Iglesia ni YHWH at ni YHWSA HMSYH” as their church name but still claim that they are still the “Iglesia ng Dios” that Nicholas Perez preaches. In January 13, 2004 he decided to register another church, Members Church of God International, Inc. SEC Reg. No. CN2004-00386. He also reserves thee (3) more church names just to ensure that the dilemma won’t happen again; Mga Kaanib ng Ama at Panginoong Jesus sa Bansang Pilipinas Inc., Members Church of the Living God, and Iglesia ng mga Bunso.

[Sinyalan]

Ang pangutana ang ila ba Ginoo mao ang Ginoo sa Biblia, Amahan ni Kristo, Ginoo sa mga Christiano.

Kung tubagon ka nako ug - of course ang Ginoo namo is the same Ginoo nga inyong gituuhan! Kung ikaw pangutan-on ug ang Ginoo nimo pareha ba sa Ginoo nga among gi ampoan? You seem to know that "YOUr GOD" is the only god that saves humanity. Buut huna-hunaon, Catholic God is also the same as your God... they follow the same path in the Bible...

You mean to say that, their tinuhoan sayup? Asa ba gud ini sa line of scriptures that Catholic God is NOT the same as Christain God! Buhat-buhat lang diay kitang tanan ini aron lang pilion kinsay dapigan... ug sa madani lang!

[Sinyalan]

Of course naman, we are all Christians but what i mean by that is born again? What do you call them then? those that have accepted Jesus as their personal saviour. Di ba Christians or born again? Those that do not believe in Saints and Mama Mary, those that do not like the cross. I have nothing against them and I am a catholic and will always stay a catholic. Its true each one has their own personal relationship with God and they say you should not pray to the Saints or some statues. Which in part i agree but its part of being a practicing catholic its been there since so for me there's nothing wrong with praying to saints and yes they act as intermediary between God and man and yes nothing wrong with praying directly to Jesus too but no you cannot sway me to convert any other way. Just where did everyone get their names from...di ba through catholic baptism?

I'm a catholic but not practicing some of their beliefs because para nako there is more truth than just praying alone. Honestly, I would never ever ask someone to convert to my belief because "sa sinugdanan pa" there is no one who can save you,... if that final judgement comes. But, there are few things that needed to itemize in believing the final judgment because in my opinion... it is unjustifiable... unless nuclear war.... and that could be prevented if indeed God love us. I wouldn't say there is nothing wrong or right in having mediators to pray for God but as for me, I seek the source. From that source, there are questions and validity ug tinood ba ang akong puntahan. I have no qualms with christian faith but to cite my knowledge about the context and some of the bible's perspective on people.

[Ironside]

RCRuman yours in bold Italics


What? reward and gift is not the same?


yes. salvation is a gift from God. Reward is given on account of a saved person's faithfulness to his duties.





My argument with you is this, can a Christian loose the salvation that God promised to those who will follow Him and Serve Him?
Because you've claimed that people who are in Christ will not perish.


I only echoed what the Lord said:



Joh 10:28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.


Jer 32:39 'then I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me forever, for the good of them and their children after them.


Jer 32:40 'And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me.


Heb 9:12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.


Here's a word from God:




36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.




Notice the words in red above. Isnt that what Jeremiah 32:39-40 said?

Truly saved people are those who abide in Christ and not draw back to perdition.





The salvation is the promise of God but if any man draw back, His soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Open your eyes, mind and heart.
Salvation is the promise and that is eternal life, all we need to do is to continue to His words and keep it until your death or until the coming of Christ.


Salvation has a past aspect a present aspect and a future aspect.

I wonder if you really read my replies to you. sometimes i think you dont read them. I replied to this already, I am tired of repeating it again.


go to Arts and Literature of this forum. clck Gospel Hall page 1. then look for 3 tenses of Mans Greatest Experience.




The danger of your belief is that you are all saved. in what?



Not everybody is saved even though Christ died for them. Salvation is free but it must be recieved by faith. Not all have faith in Christ.


1Ti 4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

[Ironside]

Ang gift kay si Cristo, mao bitaw mubuhat ta aron makaadto ta sa langit og makabaton og kinabuhing walay katapusan.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16.

Mao bitaw mutuo ta sa iya aron mabaton nato ang kinabuhing walay katapusan.

Peace!



16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16.


Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


1Jo 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given [<----past tense] us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

1Jo 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.


1Jo 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.



Before you use those verses that say that the Christian will yet inherit eternal life [ please take note that the word used there is INHERIT NOT EARNED. ETERNAL LIFE IS AN INHERITANCE WHEN THE BIBLE SPEAKS ABOUT ITS FUTURE ASPECT. yOU CAN ONLY BE ENTITLED TO THAT INHERITANCE WHEN YOU ARE ALREADY IN THE FAMILY OF GOD, WHEN YOU ARE ALREADY SAVED]

READ 3 Tenses of Mans Greatest Experience.


Eternal has a past aspect a future aspect. The saved sinner has eternal life now but will have that life fully manifested when his body is glorified.

[Ironside]

When you believed in Christ and follow him, you will be saved from the sin and if will continue you will have a eternal life and be the LORD forever.


Christ has saved the saved person from the penalty of sin:

Ro 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus


from the power of sin:


Ro 6:10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.


Ro 6:11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.



7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Romans 4:7-8.

There are sins that God will not impute to you.



Only those who have trusted In Christ alone for salvation, God will remit their sins.
God will not impute it to them since God has sent His substitute, the Lord Jesus Christ to bear their sins.

2Co 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.


Through faith in the Savior, God justifes them through the death and resurrection of His Son. Only on that basis does God not impute sin to a sinner.

[rcruman]

Joh 10:28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

Thus eternal life has been given to you?
That's why they shall never perish because on this verses the people has eternal life already.

Don't twist the verses my friend.

NO one can separate us from God, but if we are the one who will separate then its our decision.

Peace!

[Ironside]

Thus eternal life has been given to you?
That's why they shall never perish because on this verses the people has eternal life already.


yes, by God's grace I have eternal life now.




NO one can separate us from God, but if we are the one who will separate then its our decision.




I wrote this last February 3, 2007 regarding your question: "Are all saints in the bible when they commit all types of sins can be forgiven?Is salvation can't be revoked or withdrawn from the saints by God?"

notice the words in red below:


1) A saint is one who is forgiven through faith in Christ work on the cross.


2) Christ died for every single sin not just to some. And on account of that, all sins can be forgiven when they come to Christ.


3) All those who are truly saved will persevere to the end.


Joh 10:28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.


Question: What if the person himself "inside the hand" will want to go out of that hand, is he still saved?


The word "perish" there is clear in Greek. It is in the middle voice. Middle voices in Greek are reflexive.
Reflexive---- the subject is both the doer and reciever of the action. Example:


Mark punched himself


The verb 'punched' is in the reflexive. Mark is both the doer and reciever of the action. Here in this verse, the word 'perish' is in the reflexive or middle voice. The apostles clearly understood it to mean this:

Joh 10:28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish THEMSELVES; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.


that parallels these veses below:

Jer 32:39 'then I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me forever, for the good of them and their children after them.


Jer 32:40 'And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me.

[rcruman]

yes, by God's grace I have eternal life now.

IN what verse in the bible can we read that eternal life is given already?

Peace!