r u sure ur save....?

[rcruman]

1) A saint is one who is forgiven through faith in Christ work on the cross.
2) Christ died for every single sin not just to some. And on account of that, all sins can be forgiven when they come to Christ.
3) All those who are truly saved will persevere to the end.

It will not perish for those who believed in Him.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 8:31-32.

Believing Christ is to continue in His word.

My next question:
Is there an instance in the bible or a verse that a Christian has been ex-communicated or not worthy of the eternal life?

Do you believed in OSAS(once saved always saved) my friend?

Because in this kind of belief we don't have to do good anymore because anyway we are saved and ensure of the eternal life because of the word "will not perish".

Because God want us to check ourselves every now and then about our faith and the salvation.

5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 2 Corinthians 13:5.

Peace!

[Ironside]

It will not perish for those who believed in Him.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 8:31-32.

Believing Christ is to continue in His word.


the verse above [verse 31] answers the question: "What is the distinguishing mark a true disciple?" It is not a definition of what believing is.


The answer to the question: "What is the distinguishing mark a true disciple?" is: ABIDING IN CHRIST.








My next question:
Is there an instance in the bible or a verse that a Christian has been ex-communicated or not worthy of the eternal life?


What is the distinguishing mark of a true disciple of Christ? Abiding in Christ. In the Bible we must distinguish between PROFESSING CHRISTIANS AND POSSESSSING CHRISTIANS. Not all who profess to have eternal life truly have eternal life. Only those who have faith in Christ alone truly possesses eternal life and will persevere or abide in Christ to the end.


1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.






Do you believed in OSAS(once saved always saved) my friend?



I believe in eternal salvation or redemption:


Heb 9:12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.




Because in this kind of belief we don't have to do good anymore because anyway we are saved and ensure of the eternal life because of the word "will not perish".





Salvation not only changes one's destination-hell, it changes one's heart. It changes one's attitude towards sin. From loving sin to hating it for the love of the One who died for me.

Eze 36:26 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.


Eze 36:27 "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.



If you say that you are saved then practice sin as a lifestyle then it shows that your heart has not been changed. It shows you are not saved in the first place. On the contrary, it will produce love to the Savior who has saved me eternally. I am now able to serve Him out of love not out of SERVILE fear.

the verse below is one mark of salvation:

2Co 5:14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died;


2Co 5:15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.


REad Contrition and Attrition: the difference: https://www.istorya.net/forums/index.php?topic=82388.0

it is the 10th post from the top.




Because God want us to check ourselves every now and then about our faith and the salvation.

5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 2 Corinthians 13:5.
Peace!



My friend, this is what everybody is telling you. Please consider the context on which this verse is written. Please do not just pull out verses in the Bible out of context. You are mishandling the Word of God this way.


Some in Corinth were lured by false teachers FOR A TIME that Paul was the false teacher, as a result some of them questioned Paul's apostleship even though it was Paul who preached to them the gospel and believing in the Christ Paul preached, they got saved.


Paul has been defending his apostleship from the 1st letter to them and in this letter also. In this verse Paul was appealing to their salvation, to them being in the faith as a result of Paul's preaching to them as proof of his apostolic authority.


It's as if a true watchmaker's crediblity has been put into question by some and he remarks: "Okay, since you really doubt that I am a watchmaker and seek proof that I am really one, here take this watch i made, you saw it yourselves how i made it, EXAMINE THIS WATCH AND TELL ME IF I AM NOT A WATCHMAKER. This watch will tell you that I am no fake. "


Paul was saying to them: "You doubt my apostolicity and call into the ministry if I am really one who is sent by God to preach the Gospel?, Okay then EXAMINE YOURSELVES IF YOU ARE IN THE FAITH"



2Co 13:3 since you seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, who is not weak toward you, but mighty in you.


2Co 13:4 For though He was crucified in weakness, yet He lives by the power of God. For we also are weak in Him, but we shall live with Him by the power of God toward you.


2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you? --unless indeed you are disqualified.


Verse 4 is parenthetic, sometimes in our conversation we digress a bit [to clarify some things] then continue with what we were saying in our next statement. Verse 4 is parenthetic, Paul digresses a bit then continues what he was saying in verse 5.


REad verses 3 and 5 [skip verse 4 for now] to see what Paul was saying:


2Co 13:3 since you seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, who is not weak toward you, but mighty in you.


[2Co 13:4 For though He was crucified in weakness, yet He lives by the power of God. For we also are weak in Him, but we shall live with Him by the power of God toward you.]

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you? --unless indeed you are disqualified.


Nagduda mo nga aposlte ko? Nga gisugo gyud ko sa Ginoo to preach His salvation? Tan awa inyong mga Kaugalingon kung wala ba mo sa Faith as a result of my preaching/

[rcruman]

Then you are adding words in order to change to intent of the verse.

About this question of mine:
My next question:
Is there an instance in the bible or a verse that a Christian has been ex-communicated or not worthy of the eternal life?

You gave me.
1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Are these people didn't accept Christ in the frist place?

Salvation can be attained in the end.
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Matthew 10:22.

There are Christians before who was enlightened by the word of Christ and believed in Him, but:

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Hebrew 6:4-6.

Are these ex-Christian can obtained eternal life and will not perish as you've claimed?

Peace!

[Ironside]

About this question of mine:
My next question:
Is there an instance in the bible or a verse that a Christian has been ex-communicated or not worthy of the eternal life?

You gave me.
1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Are these people didn't accept Christ in the frist place?



No. If they have truly accepted Christ they would have continued with HIm. Not left HIm.

Joh 8:31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.






Salvation can be attained in the end.
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Matthew 10:22.

"Saved" in the Bible could refer to two things: Physical salvation and spiritual salvation.

Example of
Physical salvation:

Ge 50:20 "But as for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as it is this day, to save many people alive.



Ps 18:3 I will call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised; So shall I be saved from my enemies.

The context:

Ps 18:4 The pangs of death surrounded me, And the floods of ungodliness made me afraid.


Ps 18:5 The sorrows of Sheol surrounded me; The snares of death confronted me.


Ps 18:6 In my distress I called upon the LORD, And cried out to my God; He heard my voice from His temple, And my cry came before Him, even to His ears.




The verse in Matthew 24 speaks about physical salvation. The context of Matthew 24 is about the Great Tribulation:


Mt 24:6 "And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.


Mt 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.

Mt 24:8 "All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Mt 24:9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.


Mt 24:10 "And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.


Mt 24:12 "And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.


Mt 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved.


Mt 24:15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),



it is predicted in the Old Testament that at the Armagedon many will follow the AntiChist. Many nations will make war with Israel. Some Israelites will betray their countrymen and follow the AntiChrist. It will be so severe and violent. Many will grow cold but he who perseveres to the end will be saved when Christ will come down from heaven and fight the Antichrist. See Revaltions 19-20.






There are Christians before who was enlightened by the word of Christ and believed in Him, but:

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Hebrew 6:4-6.

Are these ex-Christian can obtained eternal life and will not perish as you've claimed?

Peace!

Observe Paul's change of personal pronouns in verse 4-6 then in verse 9. In verse 4-6 he writes "They" and "Those" referring to PROFESSING CHRISTIANS. Verse 9 then says " But YOU" referring to true Christians.


Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,

Heb 6:6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.


Note the illustration in verse 7 and 8 it is a great help in understanding the preceding verses:


Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; Heb 6:8 but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned



But in verse 9 he says:

Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner.



verses 4 to 6 speaks of professing Christians[not real Christians in other words]. not POSSESSING CHRISTIANS. Verse 9 he talks to POSSESSING CHRISTIANS, THOSE WHO REALLY POSSESS ETERNAL LIFE.



Here Henry Allan Ironside can explain it better than me:


A little parable follows in verses 7 and 8 before the reassuring words of the close of the passage at which we have already looked. Two plots of ground are seen side by side. The soil is alike in each field; the same sun shines upon them both; they are refreshed by the same showers. But at harvest time one produces a fine crop that is a delight to the farmer's heart; the other bears only thorns and briars fit for the fire. What makes the difference? In the one the good seed had found lodgment, but not in the other. The application is easy. Two boys grow up side by side. They attend the same synagogue; later both come under Christian influence; they go to the same meetings; they hear the same preaching; they see the same signs and wonders wrought by the Spirit of God; they both feel His convicting power; they alike profess to believe in His Name; both are baptized; both sit at the Table of the Lord. But when fiery persecution breaks out against the infant church, one basely deserts the cause, while the other stands firm as a rock. The reason is easy to discern. One has received the good seed into an honest heart. The other has only made a lip profession, based upon a mere intellectual and emotional acquaintance with Christian truth.

[rcruman]

Okay i will follow your reasoning.
So your claim that:
1) A saint is one who is forgiven through faith in Christ work on the cross.
2) Christ died for every single sin not just to some. And on account of that, all sins can be forgiven when they come to Christ.
3) All those who are truly saved will persevere to the end.

will contradict to Hebrew 6:4-6?
Observe Paul's change of personal pronouns in verse 4-6 then in verse 9. In verse 4-6 he writes "They" and "Those" referring to PROFESSING CHRISTIANS. Verse 9 then says " But YOU" referring to true Christians.
Are the people in that verse was enligthened or not?
Are Christian has been enligthened or not?
Your twisting the verse and adding your own interpretation.
Paul on that verse referring to former Christian who believed in Christ in a moment then they didn't continue.

And here's the warning to the brethren:
Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 2 John 1:8.

Another verse to prove that there are Christians who failed to continue:
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
2 Peter 2:20-22.

The apotles worked for our salvation, that we must continue.
Salvation is a gift for those who are worthy and continue in His words.


PEace!

[Ironside]

Okay i will follow your reasoning.
So your claim that:
1) A saint is one who is forgiven through faith in Christ work on the cross.
2) Christ died for every single sin not just to some. And on account of that, all sins can be forgiven when they come to Christ.
3) All those who are truly saved will persevere to the end.

will contradict to Hebrew 6:4-6?





NO. REad my post above slowly and carefully.




Observe Paul's change of personal pronouns in verse 4-6 then in verse 9. In verse 4-6 he writes "They" and "Those" referring to PROFESSING CHRISTIANS. Verse 9 then says " But YOU" referring to true Christians.
Are the people in that verse was enligthened or not?
Are Christian has been enligthened or not?




Here let me quote H.A.Ironside: it is soo easy to quote verses but to determine its context it takes attentive reading:



If this is clear now go back and read again the warning: "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." Who were the people here contemplated? According to verse 9 they were not saved people. In other words, they had never been born again of the Word and Spirit of God.


Who, then, were they? The answer is plain. They were professed converts to Christianity who had witnessed much of the supernatural character of the new and gracious movement, but they had never actually known Christ. They were like those in our Lord's day who believed in the miracles, but did not know the One who wrought them. [ see John 2:23-24] What is said of their past? There are five statements.


First, they had been enlightened. This is true of every one who listens thoughtfully to the preaching of the Gospel. Light is thereby imparted to him to which he was a stranger before. "The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple." But unhappily many have been thus enlightened who refuse to walk in the light. And we learn in 1 John 1:7 that, "If we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." Notice it is where you walk, not how. "Ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord." The man who walks in the light the revealing power of God's truth, does not shun its manifestations or turn from its fierce revealing blaze. "God is light and in him is no darkness at all." Facing the light, walking in it, he learns that the blood is sprinkled on the mercy seat from which the light shines. He no longer dreads its brightness but allows it to search him to the depths of his being knowing that the blood meets every evil thing that is thus exposed. This is a very different thing from being simply enlightened




In the second place, they had tasted of the heavenly gift. Now whether we think of this gift being the Lord Jesus Himself, whom God the Father gave to be the propitiation for our sins, or whether we think of it as that eternal life which is definitely called "the gift of God," it is quite evident that there are many who are for a time greatly impressed by the amazing fact that God has so loved the world as to send His Son into the world that He might give eternal life to all who trust Him; and yet they never truly feed upon the Living Bread that came down from heaven to give life to all who believe on His Name. To taste is one thing; to eat is quite another. There are vast numbers of persons who once seemed to appreciate Christ but have since proven that they never really knew Him, whom to know is life eternal.



Third, they "were made partakers of the Holy Spirit." Surely this implies reality. How could anyone be a partaker of the Spirit of God, and not be saved? I answer, Balaam was; and so was Judas. Yet both are lost. The Spirit of God is sovereign in His working. Yet He compels no one to surrender to Christ, though none would do so apart from His gracious brooding over their hearts. But men may experience much of His convicting power and be deeply stirred as He portrays the preciousness of Christ, and yet may resis His wooing and refuse to heed His message.




Note carefully we are not told that those apostates had ever been regenerated by the Spirit, or sealed, or anointed, or baptized, or filled. They simply became partakers of His power; but did not go on to know truly the Lord. Balaam is a sad example of this, he who felt the power of the Spirit upon him, but "loved the wages of unrighteousness" and never repented of his base intentions, even though not permitted to carry them out. Did not Judas work miracles with the rest in the energy of the Spirit? Apparently he did, for all the Twelve told how the demons were subject unto them, but our Lord declared he was a devil; and we are told he died a suicide and went to his own place.




Fourth, they "tasted the good word of God." This is closely allied to the first statement made by the inspired writer concerning them, yet it is not exactly repetition. They heard the Word preached. It appealed to them. They felt it to be what they needed. But, though they tasted its preciousness, they did not feed on it with a living faith.



And lastly, they had known something of the "powers of the world [or age] to come." [color=red]The reference is to the miraculous signs that were given by the Lord to authenticate the early Christian message. In the coming age miracles will be the ordinary thing. At the beginning of this dispensation of grace, they were given by our merciful God in order that men might be without excuse for rejecting His Word. And these Hebrews had seen many signs and wonders, so that they were, for a time at least, intellectually convinced of the truth of the new doctrine. But that truth had not been received into the heart. They knew much about Jesus, the Prophet, mighty in word and deed, but they did not know Him as Saviour and Lord by yielding themselves to His authority. While our Lord was on earth there were numbers of temporary followers who believed on Him when they saw the miracles that He wrought, but afterwards went back and walked no more with Him. Continuance is a proof of reality.[/color]


We may well challenge our own hearts as to whether we are in any better case than they. Formalists and hypocrites abound on every hand. If we profess to trust Him, do we love Him and seek to glorify Him in our lives? An empty profession saves no one.

And here's the warning to the brethren:
Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 2 John 1:8.


note the word in red: John was not talking about salvation, he was talking about rewards.

Salvation is not a reward. The Bible makes a distinction between salvation and reward. Salvation is a Gift not a reward. A Christian could lose a reward.



Another verse to prove that there are Christians who failed to continue:
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
2 Peter 2:20-22.




The illustration [in red] proves that there was no salvation lost, for there never was salvation in the first place.




He came in as a dog [or sow], he came out a dog and sow. True Christians are represented in the Bible as sheep not dogs or sow. They never became a sheep of Christ in the first place. They came in a dog they went out still a dog. There was no change of heart from hating sin to loving righteousness and holiness. They went back to eat their own vomit.


But the sheep of the Lord hears His voice. Joh 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.


The word 'hear' there is in the present tense in Greek. Present tenses in Greek describe an action that is continuint and progressing.


In other words the Lord was saying here as clearly understood by the apostles: MY SHEEP CONTINUALLY AND PROGRESSIVELY HEAR MY VOICE.

[rcruman]

Salvation is not a reward. The Bible makes a distinction between salvation and reward. Salvation is a Gift not a reward. A Christian could lose a reward.

What? reward and gift is not the same?

My argument with you is this, can a Christian loose the salvation that God promised to those who will follow Him and Serve Him?
Because you've claimed that people who are in Christ will not perish.

Here's a word from God:
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Hebrew 10:36-39.

The salvation is the promise of God but if any man draw back, His soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Open your eyes, mind and heart.
Salvation is the promise and that is eternal life, all we need to do is to continue to His words and keep it until your death or until the coming of Christ.

The danger of your belief is that you are all saved. in what?



Peace!

[junmar4]

Salvation is not a reward. The Bible makes a distinction between salvation and reward. Salvation is a Gift not a reward. A Christian could lose a reward.

What? reward and gift is not the same?

My argument with you is this, can a Christian loose the salvation that God promised to those who will follow Him and Serve Him?
Because you've claimed that people who are in Christ will not perish.

Here's a word from God:
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Hebrew 10:36-39.

The salvation is the promise of God but if any man draw back, His soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Open your eyes, mind and heart.
Salvation is the promise and that is eternal life, all we need to do is to continue to His words and keep it until your death or until the coming of Christ.

The danger of your belief is that you are all saved. in what?



Peace!

If it is a promise, then wala pay nasave karon kay wala pa man judgement!
Yes gift and reward is different. Gift, madawat nimo bisan wala kay buhaton. Reward is gained.

[rcruman]

If it is a promise, then wala pay nasave karon kay wala pa man judgement!
Yes gift and reward is different. Gift, madawat nimo bisan wala kay buhaton. Reward is gained.

Ang gift kay si Cristo, mao bitaw mubuhat ta aron makaadto ta sa langit og makabaton og kinabuhing walay katapusan.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16.

Mao bitaw mutuo ta sa iya aron mabaton nato ang kinabuhing walay katapusan.

Peace!

[junmar4]

If it is a promise, then wala pay nasave karon kay wala pa man judgement!
Yes gift and reward is different. Gift, madawat nimo bisan wala kay buhaton. Reward is gained.

Ang gift kay si Cristo, mao bitaw mubuhat ta aron makaadto ta sa langit og makabaton og kinabuhing walay katapusan.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16.

Mao bitaw mutuo ta sa iya aron mabaton nato ang kinabuhing walay katapusan.

Peace!

unya ang reward? Are they the same? How could you sin if you are saved? If you sin lang gihapon, that means lang nga dili pa ka saved.