***CONSTANTINE and the CHURCH HISTORY!!!

[yanong_banikanhon]

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Catholics claim Peter to be the first pope but even according the wikipedia: "Although peter never bore the title of pope, which came into use much later, Catholics recognize him as the pope". Mao ni gi tawag sa istorya sa iskina nga: To your according ra na., . See the next post...

Sayop gyud na nga logic, bro. Pasabton ta ka.

Sa tuig 1521, nadiskubrihan ni Magellan ang usa ka archipelago nga dunay 7,107 islands. Ang kinadak-an nga island niining maong archipelago makit-an sa amihanang bahin (northern side). Kining maong archipelago ginganlan sa mga spanish sugod sa panahon ni Ruy Lopez de Villalobos (1542) ug Las Islas Filipinas. Sa modernong panahon gitawag kini og the Philippines ug ang kinadak-ang isla sa amihanang bahin gitawag og Luzon.

Ang pangutana, sa wala pa tawga og Luzon ang kinadak-ang isla sa Filipinas, wala pa diay ni nag-exist ning islaha?

The same case also applies to the term pope and the Holy See (which you mistakenly identified as the Vatican).

[yanong_banikanhon]

You might want to wikpedia this:

"Persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire"

In legal parlance, they say, Res ipsa loquitor - The thing speaks for itself.

The truths of history cannot be hidden. No matter who tries to hide it.

You keep on saying the word 'truth'. Now please answer my question truthfully:

Kadtong mga gipang-persecute nga christians before sa time ni Constantine, mga katoliko to sila o dili?

[rclong_rey]

unsa man sab ang religion or beliefs ni jesus christ ? ang naga subay sa principyo ni jesus christ are christians, pero ang pangutana, kang kinsang principyo man pud ang gisubay niya ?

His own principle, teaching, commandments & doctrines because He is God and He never draws his power from any man or gods because HE is GOD Himself..unlike anang mga gitukod tukod lang ug kinsang tawahana mao nga walay ilang principyo mao nga mangupya nalang...

[Kenshiro]

so bali ang imo church ray true.?

tubaga kuno ni ning mga nag kalain laing interpretasyon kung naa bay unity;

1. Why protestant churches don't agree about the requirements of baptism?

2. Why protestant churches don't believe the importance of priesthood but others do?

3. Why protestant churches have different views or stands about contraception?

4.Why other protestant churches don't believe about eternal damnation but others do?

5. Why protestant churches don't have a uniform doctrine about same *** marriage?


asay factual ba wa straw man gani imo reply. nag pasabot nga wala ka kasabot sa amo dokrina nya sige kag debate namo. Ang basis sa katoliko in terms of faith and morals are bible and Church authority.

tan awa imo gi post o nga akong gi bold O.And if just red the evidences your church puts more authority on the church itself over the word of God. I was emphasizingthe authority of the church which is higher than Luther or any individual's private interpretation. Kasabot ka. ang Question nako ganina sayon ra nga wala gyud nimo gi tubag instead ni copy and paste ka nga halos ma occupy nimo ang space sa istorya.net.

be asa gikuha ni Luther iya authority sa pag usab sa bible?

I avoid self opinionated comments. You didn't question the rest of my post which means you are completely ignoring it or just lazy in theological facts.

Sayon rakayo i counter imong post about unity. This is a unity of true protestant churches not the coca-cola ones. Coca cola protestants are even more similar to the catholic which is paganistic by its origin and duluted with catholic beliefs. Even one a pastor has its own religion. But true protestants stand as one believe in the Bible only our pastors and professors shame the same belief system through out the world. sa 4th commandment nalang daan yabo na ang catholic and other protestant churches. You can say whatever excuses you have but you are tampering the eternal commandment which is itself proves the identity of your church.

In addition sa response ni bro @malic_2, ako lang kang pahibal-on nga dakong bakak kanang imong gisulti sa taas. Nia ang proof:

Matt. 2:16 - Herod's decree of slaying innocent children was prophesied in Wis. 11:7 - slaying the holy innocents.

Matt. 6:19-20 - Jesus' statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven = Sirach 29:11 - lay up your treasure.

Matt.. 7:12 - Jesus' golden rule "do unto others" comes from the converse of Tobit 4:15 - what you hate, do not do to others.

Matt. 7:16,20 - Jesus' statement "you will know them by their fruits" = Sirach 27:6 - the fruit discloses the cultivation.

Matt. 9:36 - the people were "like sheep without a shepherd" = Judith 11:19 - sheep without a shepherd.

Matt. 11:25 - Jesus' description "Lord of heaven and earth" = Tobit 7:18 - Lord of heaven and earth.

Matt. 12:42 - Jesus refers to the Wisdom of Solomon which was recorded and is part of the deuterocanonical books.

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus' reference to the "power of death" and "gates of Hades" references Wisdom 16:13.

Matt. 22:25; Mark 12:20; Luke 20:29 - Gospel writers refer to the canonicity of Tobit 3:8 and 7:11 regarding the seven brothers.

Matt. 24:15 - the "desolating sacrilege" Jesus refers to is also taken from 1 Macc. 1:54 and 2 Macc. 8:17.

Matt. 24:16 - let those "flee to the mountains" is taken from 1 Macc. 2:28.

Matt. 27:43 - if He is God's Son, let God deliver him from His adversaries follows Wisdom 2:18.

Mark 4:5,16-17 - Jesus' description of seeds falling on rocky ground and having no root follows Sirach 40:15.

Mark 9:48 - description of hell where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched references Judith 16:17.

Luke 1:42 - Elizabeth's declaration of Mary's blessedness above all women follows Uzziah's declaration in Judith 13:18.

Luke 1:52 - Mary's magnificat addressing the mighty falling from their thrones and replaced by lowly follows Sirach 10:14.

Luke 2:29 - Simeon's declaration that he is ready to die after seeing the Child Jesus follows Tobit 11:9.

Luke 13:29 - the Lord's description of men coming from east and west to rejoice in God = Baruch 4:37.

Luke 21:24 - Jesus' usage of "fall by the edge of the sword" = Sirach 28:18.

Luke 24:4 and Acts 1:10 - Luke's description of the two men in dazzling apparel reminds us of 2 Macc. 3:26.

John 1:3 - all things were made through Him, the Word, follows Wisdom 9:1.

John 3:13 - who has ascended into heaven but He who descended from heaven references Baruch 3:29.

John 4:48; Acts 5:12; 15:12; 2 Cor. 12:12 - Jesus', Luke's and Paul's usage of "signs and wonders" follows Wisdom 8:8.

John 5:18 - Jesus claiming that God is His Father follows Wisdom 2:16.

John 6:35-59 - Jesus' Eucharistic discourse is foreshadowed in Sirach 24:21.

John 10:22 - the identification of the feast of the dedication is taken from 1 Macc. 4:59.

John 10:36 – Jesus accepts the inspiration of Maccabees as He analogizes the Hanukkah consecration to His own consecration to the Father in 1 Macc. 4:36.

John 15:6 - branches that don't bear fruit and are cut down follows Wis. 4:5 where branches are broken off.

Acts 1:15 - Luke's reference to the 120 may be a reference to 1 Macc. 3:55 - leaders of tens / restoration of the twelve.

Acts 10:34; Rom. 2:11; Gal. 2:6 - Peter's and Paul's statement that God shows no partiality references Sirach 35:12.

Acts 17:29 - description of false gods as like gold and silver made by men follows Wisdom 13:10.

Rom 1:18-25 - Paul's teaching on the knowledge of the Creator and the ignorance and sin of idolatry follows Wis. 13:1-10.

Rom. 1:20 - specifically, God's existence being evident in nature follows Wis. 13:1.

Rom. 1:23 - the sin of worshipping mortal man, birds, animals and reptiles follows Wis. 11:15; 12:24-27; 13:10; 14:8.

Rom. 1:24-27 - this idolatry results in all kinds of sexual perversion which follows Wis. 14:12,24-27.

Rom. 4:17 - Abraham is a father of many nations follows Sirach 44:19.

Rom. 5:12 - description of death and sin entering into the world is similar to Wisdom 2:24.

Gusto pa ka? Ari lang diri: Catholic Answers Forums - View Single Post - Question on the deuterocanon.

P.S.

I know, you won't even attempt to check those verses mentioned in this post. Kay dili man gud importante sa imo ang kamatuoran. Ang importante nga makapangdaut ka sa simbahang katoliko. Kay kun importante pa sa imo ang truth ug honesty, dali ra kaayo ang pag-verify anang imong post kun tinuod ba o dili, bay.

I never said there is no truth in the apocrypha but truth diluted with error. But it is not worthy of being part of the scriptures, the basis is because of a very severe conflict with the true scriptures and it is of an unknown authorship and origin.
You got it wrong
No apocryphal book is referred to in the New Testament whereas the Old Testament is referred to hundreds of times.
The apocrypha never reffered to the old testamanet.

the apocrypha contains numerous errors, conflicts and it even teaches us to lie. It simply cannot be part of the scriptures.

I. The "angel of God" lies.

Near the beginning of the story, Tobit asks the angel (Raphael) his name. He gives a false name and a false lineage. He says, "I am Azariah, the son of the great Hananiah, one of your relatives." (Tobit 5:13, or 12)

II. This lying "angel of God" (more like, demon) uses witchcraft.

In Tobit 6, Tobias goes down to the river to wash his feet and this large fish jumps out and attempts to swallow his foot (Tobit 6:3). Tobias freaks out, but the angel tells him to catch the fish so that he can use the fish for medicinal purposes and for warding off an evil spirit. In Tobit 6:8, the "angel" says,

As for the fish's heart and liver, you must burn them to make a smoke in the presence of a man or a woman afflicted by a demon or evil spirit, and every affliction will flee away and never remain with that person any longer.

A little later, the "angel" instructs Tobias (regarding his marriage to Sarah),

When you enter the bridal chamber, take some of the fish's liver and heart, and put them on the embers of the incense. An odor will be given off; the demon will smell it and flee, and will never be seen near her any more. (Tobit 6:17-1

So, Tobias does it.

Then Tobias remembered the words of Raphael, and he took the fish's liver and heart out of the bag where he had them and put them on the embers of the incense. The odor of the fish so repelled the demon that he fled to the remotest parts of Egypt. (Tobit 8:2-3)

This is witchcraft teaching! There is no way this is God-breathed!

[Kenshiro]

Basis for the doctrine of purgatory:

2 Maccabees 12:43-45, 2.000 pieces of silver were sent to Jerusalem for a sin-offering...Whereupon he made reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin.

Salvation by works:

Ecclesiasticus 3:30, Water will quench a flaming fire, and alms maketh atonement for sin.

Tobit 12:8-9, 17, It is better to give alms than to lay up gold; for alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin.

Magic:

Tobit 6:5-8, If the Devil, or an evil spirit troubles anyone, they can be driven away by making a smoke of the heart, liver, and gall of a fish...and the Devil will smell it, and flee away, and never come again anymore.

Mary was born sinless (immaculate conception):

Wisdom 8:19-20, And I was a witty child and had received a good soul. And whereas I was more good, I came to a body undefiled.

It teaches serious errors such as magic, reconcilliacion of sin through money?

Inconsistency of history of the Bible.

The book of Judith

This is a story about a woman named Judith, who, through her beauty, entices "the eyes of all the men who might see her" (Judith 10:4), and brings about a deliverance for the Jews. She ends up cutting off the head of the leader of an invading army, and this leads to the Jew's deliverance.

The book begins with a historical error. The writer has Nebuchadnezzer as King over the Assyrians in Nineveh (Judith 1:1, 16; 2:1). Nebuchadnezzer was king over the Babylonians in Babylon.

As a result of this obvious error, James Akin (see the above mentioned web site) argues that the book is a parable. You could read the text (Judith) for yourself, it reads much like a historical writing and gives no reason for being taken as a parable (other than this one blatant error).

Contains subtle errors.

The Wisdom Of Solomon

This has a preponderance of false doctrine in it.

Wisdom 1:13 says, ". . . God did not make death". Please note Isaiah 45:7; Romans 11:36 and Colossians 1:16.

Wisdom 3:16-19 says,

But children of adulterers will not come to maturity, and the offspring of an unlawful union will perish. Even if they live long they will be held of no account, and finally their old age will be without honor. If they die young, they will have no hope and no consolation on the day of judgment. For the end of an unrighteous generation is grievous.

So, in other words, if you are born out of wedlock, you're going to hell and there's nothing you can do about it! This is against Romans 10:13, John 3:16, and Isaiah 55:6f.

Wisdom 6:17 says, "The beginning of wisdom is the most sincere desire for instruction." This is a lie. Proverbs 9:10 says, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." Just because someone has a sincere desire for wisdom means nothing (in and of itself). Note Proverbs 1:28,

"Then they will call on me, but I will not answer; they will seek me diligently, but they will not find me."

Here is someone who has a "sincere desire for wisdom", but wisdom does not come!

In Wisdom 6:22 the writer says, "I will tell you what wisdom is and how she came to be, ..." This is a lie. The writer never says how wisdom came to be.

Wisdom 6:24 says, "The multitude of the wise is the salvation of the world," This is a lie. Jesus is the salvation of the world (that is, for any who might be saved). Please note 1 Timothy 4:10.

Wisdom 8:19 says, "As a child I was naturally gifted, and a good soul fell to my lot; or rather, being good, I entered an undefiled body." This speaks against the truth found in Psalm 51:5; 53:1, and Romans 7:18.

Chapter 9 has a long prayer that is suppose to be Solomon's prayer asking for wisdom. 1 Kings 3:6-9 gives his "prayer", and it's not what is given in Wisdom 9.

Wisdom 12:11 says, speaking of God, "Although you are sovereign in strength, you judge with mildness, ..." This is a lie. Please note Hebrews 10:28 and Hebrews 10:30-31.

Wisdom 13:1 says,

For all people who were ignorant of God were foolish by nature; and they were unable from the good things that are seen to know the one who exists, nor did they recognize the artisan while paying heed to his works; but they supposed that either fire or wind or swift air, or the circle of the stars, or turbulent water, or the luminaries of heaven were the gods that rule the world.

This is contrary to Romans 1:18-23.

Similarly, Wisdom 13:6 says,

Yet these people are little to be blamed, for perhaps they go astray while seeking God and desiring to find him.

"These people are little to be blamed"? This is a lie. Romans 1:20 says they are without excuse. Also, it says they "go astray while seeking God". This also is a lie. Please see Romans 3:11 and 1:28.

Wisdom 14:27 says,

For the worship of idols not to be named is the beginning and cause and end of every evil.

This is a lie. The worship of idols is the result of evil (Romans 1:2, not the beginning or cause of evil. Also, please note 1 Timothy 6:10.

Wisdom 15:17 says,

People are mortal, and what they make with lawless hands is dead; for they are better than the objects they worship, since they have life, but the idols never had.

This is contrary to Psalm 115:8 and Psalm 135:18.

Wisdom 16:21, speaking of the children of Israel in the desert, says,

For your sustenance manifested your sweetness toward your children; and the bread, ministering to the desire of the one who took it, was changed to suit everyone's liking.

This is contrary to Numbers 11:5-6.

Wisdom 7:17 says, "For it is he who gave me unerring knowledge of what exists, ..." This is a lie (obvious from the above).

There are more.
This is an obvious attempt of mixing error from truth. Mixing error and truth you will get error. This is has always been the doctrine of catholics which contains subtle errors. I do not know the purpose for these but to deceive.

i say get over this apocryphal books since it will only expose your deceit in your church.
Defending a principle that encourages us to lie? I need not say more.

I wish I have time to answer all of these points from our catholic brothers but I have not the time.

[Kenshiro]

^^ So, prior to Luther, can you cite a significant person / group who you can call the true Christians?

Try this analogy. A person discovers the law of God or was given to him by God. then that person breaks that very law because he is the one who discovers the law and openly admits that he broke it.

[Kenshiro]

JPII greeting the voodoo "high priest"


In Cotonou, Benin, February 1993, John Paul II greets
the voodoo "high priest," above left, who was accompanied by other voodoo witchdoctors.

The animist religion to which they belong worships the souls of ancestors,
the forces of nature, and also the Devil

A collaboration of paganistic religion eliminating Christ and the Bible as he only way to God, and welcoming paganistic and devil worship pave the way to a new world order.

[cheking...]

PAG SURE MONG TANAN OY!!, KINSA MO PARA MKA BAW SA TANANG GI SULTI SA MGA KATIGUWANGAN KANI ADTO OG NAG PAHIBALO NGA ANG BIBLE GIKAN SA BABA NI HESUS? Sure mo oy kadungog day nang gasuwat anang bible, wa pman gani nay tuli.

MURA MOG ANAK NI MATOY DA pa sweto2, haskang pagla esmiringhoya.
:P

[Breakeven]

nice thread. up for this

[orochimaru700]

na resurrect ang thread