***CONSTANTINE and the CHURCH HISTORY!!!

[yanong_banikanhon]

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^^ Wa pa gyud nuon, bro. Unsaon iya mang gikaulaw ang iyang grupo. Maayo lang siya mangdaut sa simbahang katoliko, pero siya mismo walay igong kaisog sa pag-angkon sa iyang grupo. Tsk.tsk.tsk...

@dcuenco, ayaw na pagtago sa maskara, bro. Isulti ang name sa imong grupo.

[darsmith13]

naive kaau ang mga die hard religious oi..

[yanong_banikanhon]

@dcuenco: Akong balikon ang pangutana ni @ketllac kay murag wala ni ninyo matubag ni @Kenshiro.

ang Question nako ganina sayon ra nga wala gyud nimo gi tubag instead ni copy and paste ka nga halos ma occupy nimo ang space sa istorya.net.

be asa gikuha ni Luther iya authority sa pag usab sa bible?

*** akoa ang emphasis

[yanong_banikanhon]

naive kaau ang mga die hard religious oi..

Actually, contradicting gyud kaayo ang pagkatawo kun usa ka ka religious pero nagsige ka'g pamomba ug panghilabut sa uban nga lahi sa imo'g pagtuo.

Siguro tungod kay nagsalig ning mga tawhana nga 100% sure na lagi sila malangit (kun sila ang pasultihon), bisan unsa pay ilang buhaton. Maong nagpatuyang og panghimantay sa ilang isigkatawo. Unsaon, para nila, luwas naman sila. Tsk.tsk.tsk.

[malic_2]

This is what I got. I would expect others to dispute this:

Why the Apocrypha Isn't in the Bible.

Depende ra na kong kinsa ang magboot. si Luther bitaw ga boot boot man to siya og tang tang sa mga libro.

1. Not one of the apocryphal books is written in the Hebrew language, which was alone used by the inspired historians and poets of the Old Testament. All Apocryphal books are in Greek, except one which is extant only in Latin.

so? hatag pod og reason nganong kinahanglan ni mahisulat sa Hebrew. atong paminawon imong rason.

2. None of the apocryphal writers laid claim to inspiration.

daghang mga libro sa New testament nga wa pod mo claim og inspiration.


3. The apocryphal books were never acknowledged as sacred scriptures by the Jews, custodians of the Hebrew scriptures (the apocrypha was written prior to the New Testament). In fact, the Jewish people rejected and destroyed the apocrypha after the overthow of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.
4. The apocryphal books were not permitted among the sacred books during the first four centuries of the real Christian church (I'm certainly not talking about the Catholic religion which is not Christian).

daghang Jews karon nga dili nila e acknowledge nga sacred scriptures ang New Testament. meaning way epek imong logic.

5. The Apocrypha contains fabulous statements which not only contradict the "canonical" scriptures but themselves. For example, in the two Books of Maccabees, Antiochus Epiphanes is made to die three different deaths in three different places.

Protestant Bible also contain a lot of contradictions.

6. The Apocrypha includes doctrines in variance with the Bible, such as prayers for the dead and sinless perfection. The following verses are taken from the Apocrypha translation by Ronald Knox dated 1954:

Basis for the doctrine of purgatory:
2 Maccabees 12:43-45, 2.000 pieces of silver were sent to Jerusalem for a sin-offering...Whereupon he made reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin.

Salvation by works:
Ecclesiasticus 3:30, Water will quench a flaming fire, and alms maketh atonement for sin.

And this is in agreement with James where he said Faith w/o work is dead.

Tobit 12:8-9, 17, It is better to give alms than to lay up gold; for alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin.

Remember what Jesus said? he said...lay up treasures in heaven.

Magic:
Tobit 6:5-8, If the Devil, or an evil spirit troubles anyone, they can be driven away by making a smoke of the heart, liver, and gall of a fish...and the Devil will smell it, and flee away, and never come again anymore.

The Protestant Bible also says that you need the blood of Pigeons to heal sick, MAGIC. Read your Old Testament.


Mary was born sinless (immaculate conception):
Wisdom 8:19-20, And I was a witty child and had received a good soul. And whereas I was more good, I came to a body undefiled.
It teaches immoral practices, such as lying, suicide, assasination and magical incantation.

so is your Protestant bible.

No apocryphal book is referred to in the New Testament whereas the Old Testament is referred to hundreds of times.

but dili tanan sa Old Testament were mention. so pasabot ani dili to inspired ang obang libro sa Old Testament kay wa man gi mention? logic pod gamay bai.

hadlok ka mo sulti sa imong denominasyon bai?

[yanong_banikanhon]

No apocryphal book is referred to in the New Testament whereas the Old Testament is referred to hundreds of times.

In addition sa response ni bro @malic_2, ako lang kang pahibal-on nga dakong bakak kanang imong gisulti sa taas. Nia ang proof:

Matt. 2:16 - Herod's decree of slaying innocent children was prophesied in Wis. 11:7 - slaying the holy innocents.

Matt. 6:19-20 - Jesus' statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven = Sirach 29:11 - lay up your treasure.

Matt.. 7:12 - Jesus' golden rule "do unto others" comes from the converse of Tobit 4:15 - what you hate, do not do to others.

Matt. 7:16,20 - Jesus' statement "you will know them by their fruits" = Sirach 27:6 - the fruit discloses the cultivation.

Matt. 9:36 - the people were "like sheep without a shepherd" = Judith 11:19 - sheep without a shepherd.

Matt. 11:25 - Jesus' description "Lord of heaven and earth" = Tobit 7:18 - Lord of heaven and earth.

Matt. 12:42 - Jesus refers to the Wisdom of Solomon which was recorded and is part of the deuterocanonical books.

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus' reference to the "power of death" and "gates of Hades" references Wisdom 16:13.

Matt. 22:25; Mark 12:20; Luke 20:29 - Gospel writers refer to the canonicity of Tobit 3:8 and 7:11 regarding the seven brothers.

Matt. 24:15 - the "desolating sacrilege" Jesus refers to is also taken from 1 Macc. 1:54 and 2 Macc. 8:17.

Matt. 24:16 - let those "flee to the mountains" is taken from 1 Macc. 2:28.

Matt. 27:43 - if He is God's Son, let God deliver him from His adversaries follows Wisdom 2:18.

Mark 4:5,16-17 - Jesus' description of seeds falling on rocky ground and having no root follows Sirach 40:15.

Mark 9:48 - description of hell where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched references Judith 16:17.

Luke 1:42 - Elizabeth's declaration of Mary's blessedness above all women follows Uzziah's declaration in Judith 13:18.

Luke 1:52 - Mary's magnificat addressing the mighty falling from their thrones and replaced by lowly follows Sirach 10:14.

Luke 2:29 - Simeon's declaration that he is ready to die after seeing the Child Jesus follows Tobit 11:9.

Luke 13:29 - the Lord's description of men coming from east and west to rejoice in God = Baruch 4:37.

Luke 21:24 - Jesus' usage of "fall by the edge of the sword" = Sirach 28:18.

Luke 24:4 and Acts 1:10 - Luke's description of the two men in dazzling apparel reminds us of 2 Macc. 3:26.

John 1:3 - all things were made through Him, the Word, follows Wisdom 9:1.

John 3:13 - who has ascended into heaven but He who descended from heaven references Baruch 3:29.

John 4:48; Acts 5:12; 15:12; 2 Cor. 12:12 - Jesus', Luke's and Paul's usage of "signs and wonders" follows Wisdom 8:8.

John 5:18 - Jesus claiming that God is His Father follows Wisdom 2:16.

John 6:35-59 - Jesus' Eucharistic discourse is foreshadowed in Sirach 24:21.

John 10:22 - the identification of the feast of the dedication is taken from 1 Macc. 4:59.

John 10:36 – Jesus accepts the inspiration of Maccabees as He analogizes the Hanukkah consecration to His own consecration to the Father in 1 Macc. 4:36.

John 15:6 - branches that don't bear fruit and are cut down follows Wis. 4:5 where branches are broken off.

Acts 1:15 - Luke's reference to the 120 may be a reference to 1 Macc. 3:55 - leaders of tens / restoration of the twelve.

Acts 10:34; Rom. 2:11; Gal. 2:6 - Peter's and Paul's statement that God shows no partiality references Sirach 35:12.

Acts 17:29 - description of false gods as like gold and silver made by men follows Wisdom 13:10.

Rom 1:18-25 - Paul's teaching on the knowledge of the Creator and the ignorance and sin of idolatry follows Wis. 13:1-10.

Rom. 1:20 - specifically, God's existence being evident in nature follows Wis. 13:1.

Rom. 1:23 - the sin of worshipping mortal man, birds, animals and reptiles follows Wis. 11:15; 12:24-27; 13:10; 14:8.

Rom. 1:24-27 - this idolatry results in all kinds of sexual perversion which follows Wis. 14:12,24-27.

Rom. 4:17 - Abraham is a father of many nations follows Sirach 44:19.

Rom. 5:12 - description of death and sin entering into the world is similar to Wisdom 2:24.

Gusto pa ka? Ari lang diri: Catholic Answers Forums - View Single Post - Question on the deuterocanon.

P.S.

I know, you won't even attempt to check those verses mentioned in this post. Kay dili man gud importante sa imo ang kamatuoran. Ang importante nga makapangdaut ka sa simbahang katoliko. Kay kun importante pa sa imo ang truth ug honesty, dali ra kaayo ang pag-verify anang imong post kun tinuod ba o dili, bay.

[yanong_banikanhon]

@dcuenco: Now that I have given the counter-claim regarding sa imong claim nga WALA SUGAD gi-quote sa new testament ang apocrypha (we actually call these books 'deuterocanon'), it is your job to prove that these verses actually don't exist. If you cannot prove that, usa ra gyud ang logical conclusion: you lied.

[dcuenco]

Oh boy. Some people really do not get it.
I repeat what was earlier claimed:
"Jesus never quoted from the apocrypha books". Just because some items in these apocrypha books have some allusions or hints or the same ideas in the new testament DOES NOT MEAN that Jesus quoted from these books. In other words, Jesus Himself did not recognize these as scriputures because He never talked about it.

[THE SKULLS]

hadlok ka mo sulti sa imong denominasyon bai?

membro ni siya sa INN

[dcuenco]

Regarding church history, though I am not a protestant or a Lutheran, I think everyone including catholics should be thankful about what Luther did. You know why?
1. Without the protestant movement, the bible (old and new testament) would not have been distributed to the common people. Its distribution would have been limited to the priests and it would only have been available in the Latin language which only the clergy understood. As mentioned in the recordings, the roman catholic church AT THAT TIME banned the distribution of the bible to laymen.
2. Without the protestant movement, the roman catholic church would not have been reformed of corruption, immorality, and even mass murder of Jews, Muslims, and Christians not belonging to the RCC. Think about this, if there really was no real issue against the roman catholic church AT THAT TIME, why do you think the protestant movement had so much support to the extent that even kings and entire nations supported it?

Due to the protestant movement, the roman catholic church launched "counter-reformation moves" to try to clean itself from these evil clergy. However, doctrines which the protestants tried to stop remained. These were doctrines on worship of icons, the sacraments, infant baptism, celibacy of priests, etc.

Take note, that even after the counter-reformation moves of the RCC in Europe, abuses to Filipinos by the spanish friars was still prevalent. These is found in Philiippine History books by Renato Constantino.

It is very easy to argue that these are all "attacks" against the RCC. The issue here is making the misled and misguided aware of the real historical facts so they can see the truth. Cheap, shallow, and distorted arguments from certain defenders attempt to steer the issue away from the truth by inciting others into thinking that these are "pag daot" rather than exposing the truth.