The Roman Catholic Church~ Questions

[ketllac]

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[yanong_banikanhon]

In short, Vatican Council 2 is stating there is no salvation for those non-catholic christians who reject the authority of the scripture (bible) AND tradition (vatican church)..

This is only TRUE if: you sincerely know that the catholic church was founded by GOD through Christ and you consciously reject it.

People who have never had an opportunity to hear of Christ and his Church—and those Christians whose minds have been closed to the truth of the Church by their conditioning—are not necessarily cut off from God’s mercy. Vatican II phrases the doctrine in these terms:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their consciences—those too may achieve eternal salvation (LG 16).

Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers TO ALL the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery (Gaudium et Spes 22).

src: No Salvation Outside the Church (This Rock: December 2005)

[fisher7]

Good works is the result of salvation, that is faith = salvation + good works and not faith + good woks = salvation.
In Romans:2:8 - grace means something given that we do not deserve and salvation is a gift from God. kailangan ba trabahoan nimo ang usa ka regalo? Dili. Dawaton ug pasalamatan. We cannot earn our salvation by serving and obeying God. But such actions show that our commitment to God is real. Deeds of loving service are not a substitute for, but rather a verification of our faith in Christ.
Kulang pa ba ang gihimo ni Kristo didto sa Krus sa kalbaryo? May hihigit pa ba sa dakilang sakripisyo na iyang gihimo? He did die for us because we can not pay our sins. Maski unsa pa atong pagkamaayo, the standards of our Holy God is too high for us to reach. Only Christ without sin became the sin substitute for all men so that we may again have a relationship with God.

[dcuenco]

@fisher7, daghan pa jud wala naka sabot sa true message of salvation. Sa significance sa dugo ni Jesus nga iyang gipa agas alang kanato. Mao nay mahitabo kung dili ang tawo mo basa sa tibook bibliya. Mag lisod ug tuhog sa kamatuoran.

[fisher7]

@dcuenco, tinood imo sulti bro

[yanong_banikanhon]

We cannot earn our salvation by serving and obeying God. But such actions show that our commitment to God is real..

Huh? Nakuratan ko ani da! So, how can we earn our salvation then? By spitting on HIM and by rejecting and disobeying HIS commands?

So sayop diay ning nakasulat sa bible nga:

Phil. 2:12
Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling

James 2:14
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?

Mao diay ning uban walay kahadlok ug walay konsensya mangdaut ug manghimantay sa pagtoo sa ilang isigkatawo kay feeling man diay nila 100% na sila nga malangit bisan mohimo pa sila og mga kasaypanan. Feeling man diay nila exempted na sila sa justice sa DIOS.

No wonder mao ni gisulti ni James bahin aning mga tawhana:

James 2:20-22
You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

P.S. Kanang mga verse sa taas, gusto na ipatanggal ni Martin Luther (ang unang protestante nga maoy tinubdan sa teachings sa mga fundamentalist ug born-again christians) pero wala siya magmalamposon.

[JeKeRo]

dili misahan ang gahikog kai greatest sin mana ang magHikog mao manay pinakaHate n Jesus ang magHikog.

Naa gani to tawag ani nga sala, kalimut lng ko.

[fisher7]

@yanong-banikanhon
Continue to work out your salvation is different from working for your salvation.
James is merely trying to say that faith that does not result into good works is not true faith. If you have true faith, you won't spit on Him or disobey His commands. Syempre, tao pa rin tayo, once we are saved sin still is in us and we continue to battle sin while we live in this world.
Is it hard to accept that salvation is through grace alone - did what Christ do on the Cross not enough that's why we try to work for our salvation. We are sinners and we cannot save ourselves. God cannot accept sin that is why Christ died on the cross. If Christ did not become a substitute for us, eternal punishment would be an assurance for all men. Grace means something given that we do not deserve. A gift from God does not need to be worked for but accepted.
Let's just pray for each other so that we may know more of our faith.

[yanong_banikanhon]

^^ Well, that is your own opinion, not what the bible says. The bible clearly says, 'faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead' (James 2:17).

[yanong_banikanhon]

@yanong-banikanhon
Continue to work out your salvation is different from working for your salvation.

Semantics, bro. Purely semantics.

What's the point of continously working out our salvation with fear and trembling (Phil 2:12) if in fact, as what you have confidently claimed, those who believe in Jesus are ALREADY saved and nothing can undo the said salvation?

Mao siguro nang daghang mga criminal nga na-priso nga inig ka-gawas sa prisohan nahimong born-again. Kay attractive man kaayo ang offer: Just accept Jesus as your Saviour once AND you are eternally saved. Nothing can undo this salvation. No amount of bad deeds (even criminal acts like murder, rape, etc...) can make you 'unsave'.