NDF: a terrorist group or not?

[tolstoi]

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brod Gareb, i decided that we should continue our PM discussion regarding the topic here so that our fellow istoryans can also air-out opinions on what they think about the abovementioned subject..


to everyone..this is for the sole purpose of dissolving the issue in an intelligent or civilized way, please please avoid nitpicking remarks and wayward/OT posts pertaining to the discussion..i dont want this to end-up like the previous threads.


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GAREB:

as for the issue on terrorism and the terrorist tag, let us derive our definition of terrorism from the United Nations. the 1987 Geneva Declaration on Terrorism states;

"the distinguishing feature of terrorism is fear and that this fear is stimulated by threats of indiscriminate and horrifying forms of violence directed against ordinary people everywhere." (emphasis mine)

burning buses or cell sites obviously do not come under this. i am still yet to hear reports of passengers being burned inside buses when the NPA's burn em. if there have been, then that is a clear violation of the treaty, and must be reported to the human rights monitoring bodies that both NDF and GRP has created upon the passage of CAHRIHL (pdf file).

as for killing ex-members, i know pretty many people who have withrawn their membership from the communist party and have taken different paths and different beliefs. i also know a number of staunch anti-communists. but i have yet to see any of them killed because of it.

seriously, according to Article 43 of the Protocol I, a party can only engage in a military operation against legitimate military tagrets. armed personnel of the opposing party are considered as such. CPP-NPA has provided 'evidences' that some of those killed were actually working for the military. we can challenge this though.

the question here is whether or not to kill (since it's war at the first place) but the legitimacy of the basis for such.

as you may have noticed, i am looking at this issue from the perspective of international law. the peace talks was never given a chance with this 'terrorist' tag. it could have been a way out of this quandry. by international law, the CPP-NPA-NDF and the MILF cannot be equated with Abu Sayaff and other groups that are unquestionably espouse terrorism. the sad fact of this tagging only destroys the momentum that was achieved with the passage of the CAHRIHL document.

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"the distinguishing feature of terrorism is fear and that this fear is stimulated by threats of indiscriminate and horrifying forms of violence directed against ordinary people everywhere." (emphasis mine)

burning buses or cell sites obviously do not come under this. i am still yet to hear reports of passengers being burned inside buses when the NPA's burn em. if there have been, then that is a clear violation of the treaty, and must be reported to the human rights monitoring bodies that both NDF and GRP has created upon the passage of CAHRIHL (pdf file).

i gotta give you my favorite definition of terrorism first..this one's from a handy desktop dictionary called wordweb =)

TERRORIST: A radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities.

as you see i made an emphasis on "terror as a political weapon"..the clause just fits right on this group [NDF] because they are utilizing terror as a means to advance its political/radical agenda in the country..now why would they resort to this means if their aim is to protect and serve the masses?..can they not advance their agenda in such a way that they can't instill fear on public's eye?

and also you forgot to mention about EXTORTION..this news about CPP-NPA doing such act on private individual seems an utter example that this group should really be tagged as terrorist, there's nothing wrong with soliciting money for a cause, even the church and NGO's are doing that..but causing harm to that indivdual or to the property if he/she could not give such amount is apparently unjust.

here's another point that i want to stretch out:

- is a classless society like communism the answer to our country's political and economic problem?..knowing that other countries who adopt this form of government ends-up unsuccessful..for a fact China is slowly ebbing-out its conformity to the communist ideology.

- if ever NDF could lead the government, what are the agenda/master plan that they would implement in oder to augment the current political and economic status of our country?

- and lastly, can we still post freely in istorya.net if ever NDF can successfully lead our government? ..i am basically talking here about the extent of our freedom as a citizen..and also the press freedom.

[iloveyou4ever]

Absolutely Terrorist! Hoy mga NPA's (NDF) mga terrorista mo. Dapat ipalagpot mo dire sa pinas. Dapat ibala mo sa kanyon ug pang hapakon mo tanan. Kanang mga NPA's, mga opportunista na nya the most corrupt pa. To NPA's: Mamatay kayo sa inggit. Dapat hutdon mo tanan ni PGMA. Against pa mo konohay sa mga US troops. Hadlok lang mo sa mga US troops nga nag abot ngari pinas kay bun ugan mo nila. Mga NPA's get lost!

[LytSlpr]

YES, they are.

[Empress_Of_Drac]

Lots of their leaders have already went back to the bossom of the Government...their causes aren't intended for the people...they are just like all those friggin' politicians who are power-hungry that they will do anything to overthrow the government...they are aiming for a classless society...equality for all...equal distribution of the country's resources...these are all GOOD...but a classless society is way too impossible to happen...well, mah point is...these causes are only mere fronts...that's what one of their leaders confessed...

[gareb]

i'm amused that you took the initiative. ok fine. let's get on with this.Â*

first, your definition of terrorism = "employing terror as a political weapon" is faulty.

if it is merely 'terror' or 'fear', then you might as well include, aside from the usual suspects, the AFP, the PNP, the private armies of certain politicians, even religious organizations by all means. may it be fear of hamletting and harassments in the hinterlands and even in urban centers (refer to the documented human rights abuses of the AFP and the PNP acknowledged even by the US State Department, and the UN Human Rights Committee), guns and goons tactic to acquire votes, and threats of brimstone and hellfire in the afterlife! mind you the latter is still a political weapon as it makes followers adhere to the dogma of a particular group.

so you see, your WorldwebÂ* definition is not enoughÂ* . it is no wonder that such a thing as the 1987 Geneva Declaration on Terrorism was done in order to differentiate between national liberation organizations (which is permitted according to international law) and terrorist organizations.Â* between Worldweb and a Geneva Declaration, when it comes to this matter, i hope you cannot fault me when i happen to chose the latter.Â* anyway, it defines 'terrorism' as (i'll re-post this for emphasis. i hope you guys actually read the whole document.)

"the distinguishing feature of terrorism is fear and that this fear is stimulated by threats of indiscriminate and horrifying forms of violence directed against ordinary people everywhere."

as for the issue of extortion, as i have mentioned in an earlier PM i sent you, the NDF is a political entity that is at war with the GRP. it's belligerent status is automatically acknowledged by the GRP with its signing of the Hague Joint Statement.. this means that the NDF is in itself a government which reserves the right to engage in taxation within its territory. three governments(including the MILF) in one state.

it's like this. if you do not agree that an institution has a right to collect tax, you call it extortion. if you do, then you call it taxation. inability to pay taxes result to certain consequences. under the GRP laws, property can be confiscated or you can go to jail for tax evasion. under the NDF laws, property is destroyed. international law does not see any difference.

we can also say that motive (on where the money is going) should distinguishing which is which. but this is highly arbitrary, and i think you will agree with me when i say that politicians are not exactly very honest when they say that all the taxes that they have collected will go to social services, etc.

but the fact remains that international law, and past accords through the peace process, legitimizes the existence of national liberation movements separate from terrorist organizations in the country.
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ok. that's it. your other queries are simply out of topic. besides, i am in no position to answer them as i am not a member of the NDF. you can research it though.

[franklin]

they are not terrorists. they are bunch of crazy and useless people that destroys the bright future of young individuals specially those studying in UP. NDF is a horrifying disease that needs immediate cure.

[ryan22]

idealistic ra kaau nya cge ug reklamo ug government corruption and cge ingon cla ang angay mopuli sa gobyerno they themselves are extracting there funds from revolutionary taxes!(one form of corruption) and brainwashing minds of innocent people!

sabotaging government facilities they just add up to security issues with the country...klaro au mga terrorista!

[budmendz]

Maayo ra unta manunug cila ug mga bus unya ang maapil ug kasunog ang ilang mga paryente nga nanakay. Maayo ra unta nga mangguba sila ug cell sites unya dunay emergency sa ilang familya ug mangamatay ilang pamilya nga dili katawag ug tabang kay ilang gisunog mga cell sites.

Maayo ra unta ug sa ilang pagka illegal logger, kay apil man sad na sila ana ba, mabaha-an ilang mga paryente ug mga familya ug maapil sa baha ug ibanlas.
Maayo ra unta ug bisag unsay ilang i sabotahe mosambalik sa ilaha ang ilang yawan-ong binuhatan.

Ginoo tawon dungga ang akong mga pag-ampo.

[tolstoi]

correction brod gareb, it's wordweb not worldweb..although this dictionary is free to download, this is much better than wikipedia for it can't be edited by anyone

first, your definition of terrorism = "employing terror as a political weapon" is faulty.

if it is merely 'terror' or 'fear', then you might as well include, aside from the usual suspects, the AFP, the PNP, the private armies of certain politicians, even religious organizations by all means. may it be fear of hamletting and harassments in the hinterlands and even in urban centers (refer to the documented human rights abuses of the AFP and the PNP acknowledged even by the US State Department, and the UN Human Rights Committee), guns and goons tactic to acquire votes, and threats of brimstone and hellfire in the afterlife! mind you the latter is still a political weapon as it makes followers adhere to the dogma of a particular group.

"the distinguishing feature of terrorism is fear and that this fear is stimulated by threats of indiscriminate and horrifying forms of violence directed against ordinary people everywhere."

whatever definition u choose still the common denominator is "FEAR", that is instilling fear on the aggrieved individual..you cant say that when CPP-NPA collects revolutionary tax to a certain person, he/she will give it wholeheartedly and without repression..that individual will certainly give the amount for FEAR of getting killed, or its property getting burned..

and basing from that Geneva convention terminilogy, the consequencies being impose by the CPP-NPA are utterly horrifying and violent in form..as oppose from your views, this is totally different on how the GRP impose penalty on a tax offender, the government will certainly not burn the properties or harass the indiviual...i dunno where you get those AFP abuses and stuffs, whether it maybe true or not still you can file charges before the human rights commision regarding the said military scalawags...in revolutionary government this is impossible.

[bcasabee]

aw, kung mao na, ....sobra pas terrorist....and what's worst....they want to create their own government(si kiinsa kahay gasugo nila nga magbuhat ug ila no?)...tan-awa ra gud...Under GRP, if one cannot pay tax, property will be confiscated, pero sa NDF, ilang gub-on....hala, kung under kaha ta tanan nila unya dili ta ganahan mobayad ug tax...hurot tanang property ug pang-guba? And to think....kasagaran raba Â*dili ganahan anang NDF which means kasagaran dili mo bayad ug buwis, which again means hurot jud ang property ug kaguba....Barbaric mana nga kind of government...........tsk tsk tsk...and they say its better than democracy....