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Thread: Porgatory

  1. #261

    Quote Originally Posted by SioDenz View Post
    If naa kay True FAITH natural mubuhat jud kag maayu according to your FAITH. I dont think we need to separate them kay ang meaning sa FAITH is not equal to BELIEF but a LIVING Faith, meaning PAGKINABUHI dha kang Kristo. Pagkinabuhi means effects ang BUHAT.


    Saying FAITH alone DOES not Mean nga Nagtuoo rako pero akong buhat Dautan or wa nisunod sa Dios. It means nagtuoo ko mao akong buhat maayu.
    Good works is the result of your faith in Christ, this is true coz how can you do a good work if dili nmo e uyon sa gusto or pleasing sa Ginoo? Don't misinterpret that by doing good without true faith is enough na for salvation and having a "faith" without doing a good work is a dead faith. There is a big difference here from doing good works only in order to go to heaven. A christian who accepted Christ do good works because of his love for Christ.


    So sa Sitwasyun sa Thief which was Besides Jesus. Kanang mu ingun ka nga REQUIREMENT ang Maayung Buhat sa Kaluwasan - WALA nah na apply? kay wa man siya ka buhat ug maayu,

    If requirement pa ang maayung buhat sa kaluwasan, nganu naluwas man siya nga wa man siya ka Comply sa isa ka Requirement? nga ang nahimu nya is Repentance raman...

    Ikaw nag ingun sa imung previous post nga Repentance is NOT a form of Good Deeds...
    If you die immediately after accepting Christ you are saved just as much as a person who once saved. Given the consequences to each person, the paralyze man and the thief in the cross can't do good deeds anymore. But saying like you or me or any other person who is able and healthy, maka buhat, maka lihok, maka tabang, maka pili unsay angay buhaton uyon ba o supak sa Ginoo... naa tay obligasyon mo sunod unsay maau if you truly love God and follow him.. it will be lame to just rely on your faith and not practice it as long as you live. mao ni ako punto, irrelevant imo e cite ang paralyze kay given sa iya situation dli na maka buhat ug unsay maau, all he can do if he wants to be saved is to repent (maka sala man ghapn cya sa huna2x) and accept God in his life. The thief on the cross who was dying which is an exceptional circumstance. If ingon ka dli requirement ang maayung buhat sa sama natong maayu pag lawas, if rely rka sa imong faith.. what does that make you? We need a true working faith and practice and live what Jesus tells us to live and imitate his way of life.. but then again we are imperfect, He just wants us to have a repentant heart.

  2. #262
    Elite Member slabs7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rics zalved View Post
    first of all bay, dili man intention sa Ginoo nga himoon goons na si Satan, in fact bata2x na niya sa una, tungod sa iyang pride nagrebelde siya so mao nang iya misyon na ron kay mangdeceive na ug mga taw

    ang intention nga gihimo niya ang taw para naay moworship niya ug at the same time naay mopakita ug love niya nga dili pinugos

    as far as i know, ang unang sala nila ni Adam kadto ra mang gikaon nila ang prutas, before ana ok ra man sila ni God, after atong salaa gipagawas na sila sa garden tungod sa ilang disobedience, pero love gihapon ni God sila kay gitagaan sila ug sinina,

    ang intention pud sa Ginoo nganong gihimo ang kalibutan para kapuy-an sa tawo, pero tungod sa sala, fallen na jud ang earth, actually ang earth training ground na jud ni siya karon para sa character molding sa tawo before siya maworthy didto sa heaven
    ingon dili pinugos? ngano ug dili motuman silotan man? mura na siya siyag extortionists.

    mohatag mo nako ug igong kantidad bugti sa inyong proteksyon

    someway as saying "Love me and have faith on me and I will save you

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by slabs7 View Post
    ingon dili pinugos? ngano ug dili motuman silotan man?
    Coz He is holy and just.

    mura na siya siyag extortionists.
    extortionists d.i nang mo silot sa nakasala.. lol

    mohatag mo nako ug igong kantidad bugti sa inyong proteksyon

    someway as saying "Love me and have faith on me and I will save you
    You missed man's ultimate end in creation. The purpose of his existence
    Last edited by NapoleonBlownapart; 03-12-2015 at 11:00 AM.

  4. #264
    Elite Member slabs7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yhokz101 View Post
    hehehe bai slabs, nag libog ka sa difference between free will ug knowledge sa right and wrong.

    free will is making a choice of your own, any choice, it could be bad or right choice..

    e differentiate sa nang duha maka sabot ra lage ka..
    dako man siguro ug deperensya bai, kay kung free will ingon ani rana,

    kung mo hatag ka aw salamat ug dako pero if dili ka mohatag ok rasad wa koy mahims mao nay free will

    pero kung pinugos kani sad na: "kung mohatag ka mas maayo pero kung dili ka mohatag aw ikaw lang makatamtam ka sa akong silot

    Quote Originally Posted by yhokz101 View Post
    it not mentioned in the bible but I think they asked for forgiveness and God did forgive then but since they are no longer pure in hearts and commited sin, na banished sila. You mentioned second chance. In the Bible God is a God of second chances. God gives us a second chance when we sin. God did give Adam and Eve a second chance because He did not immediately eliminate them for their sin, which is what they deserved (for disobeying Him). When they sinned the whole creation fell—it was no longer perfect!
    unsa ang wala na mention sa bible? ang pag curse? unsa man ni

    Genesis 3:16-17 16 To the woman he said,

    “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
    with painful labor you will give birth to children.
    Your desire will be for your husband,
    and he will rule over you.”

    17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

    “Cursed is the ground because of you;
    through painful toil you will eat food from it
    all the days of your life.

    ug kung imong basahon gikan sa verse 8 after niya mangutana unsay nahitabo gi diretso lang niya pag sumpa ang duha without giving them a chance, gi explain na nila ngano nabuhat to nila pero lahos2x lang ang peg

    Quote Originally Posted by yhokz101 View Post
    They were told at first not to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge db.. naa naman pasidana ang Ginoo unsay bawal para nila. and yet they disobeyed him.
    naa lagi pasidaan na ayaw na kaona, pero if you remember some posts matud nila murag bata pa silang adam ug eve, meaning bisan unsa imo isulti wala na sila kahibaw ana kay they still dont know how to differentiate what is good and bad, diba ang bata bisan unsaon nimo nag sulti nga ayaw nag buhata pero ila jud buhaton?

    Quote Originally Posted by yhokz101 View Post
    ayaw e damay ang bata bai, wa pa tawn nay buot.. (what i meant sa way buot sila adam and eve, buot sa right and wrong, buot as in consent)
    naunsa...kamo ra bitaw naghatag ana nga example nga matud ninyo sila adam ug eve kaniadto sa wala pa makakaon sa prutas mura silag bata

    Quote Originally Posted by yhokz101 View Post
    ang kana sila adam ug eve naa na silay consent.. wala pa lang knowledge between right or wrong. lahi man na kung imo laging e pareha sa bata.. hehehe lingaw jd nang imong sample story hehehe..
    mao lagi wala pa silay knowledge, ug usa nila nahibaw-an nga sayop di ie to sa dihang nakakaon na sa prutas, gihatagan unta tog bisan gamay lang na pagsabot,

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by NapoleonBlownapart View Post
    Coz He is holy and just.
    define holy and just

    Quote Originally Posted by NapoleonBlownapart View Post
    You missed man's ultimate end in creation. The purpose of his existence
    please justify the purpose of man's existence

    Quote Originally Posted by NapoleonBlownapart View Post
    extortionists d.i nang mo silot sa nakasala.. lol
    mao rana silang istoryaha, kay wala ka magtuman sa iyang gusto aw katilaw kas iyang kabangis
    Last edited by slabs7; 03-12-2015 at 11:10 AM.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by slabs7 View Post
    dako man siguro ug deperensya bai, kay kung free will ingon ani rana,

    kung mo hatag ka aw salamat ug dako pero if dili ka mohatag ok rasad wa koy mahims mao nay free will

    pero kung pinugos kani sad na: "kung mohatag ka mas maayo pero kung dili ka mohatag aw ikaw lang makatamtam ka sa akong silot
    - free will is a ability to make you own choice, wala ka gi mandoan o gi pugos..

    - Knowledge to determine or differentiate between right and wrong.

    dako jd nag deperensya sa duha slabs...

    sample, nag lakaw ka, kita kag tiguwang nga na dagma,samaran iya tiil. naa kay choice mo tabang ug naa pod kay choice imo pasagdan. [mao ni ang free will]. Karon, kahibaw ka unsay saktong buhaton og dli sakto.. unless insensitive jd ka. mao na ang knowedge sa pg determine sa right and wrong.

    sa kadto case nila adam and eve, naa silay choices. mo kaon ba o dli.. pero naa nay condition gi hatag nila sa Ginoo na DILI KAONON ang prutas. by that kasbot na sila unsay ginadili, ang pag kaon sa prutas.. pero mi disobey man sila sa tugon, mao na an result sa free will. Ang sakto unta nmong pangutana, nganu gihatagan paman sila ug free will, db?

    unsa ang wala na mention sa bible? ang pag curse? unsa man ni
    i was talking about them, asking forgiveness.


    naa lagi pasidaan na ayaw na kaona, pero if you remember some posts matud nila murag bata pa silang adam ug eve, meaning bisan unsa imo isulti wala na sila kahibaw ana kay they still dont know how to differentiate what is good and bad, diba ang bata bisan unsaon nimo nag sulti nga ayaw nag buhata pero ila jud buhaton?
    sama sa bata nga pure and innocent, wala kahibaw pa unsay right and wrong. kadtong pasidaan mao na to ang rule nila, mao ra to ang usa ka rule nila. unya imo man gi literal ug sabot, murag bata sila adam ug eve.. dli man to sila gagmayng bata, yaw e literal lage pagsabot tanan. Adam and Eve are capable na adto na time.. naa nay buot mo sabot sa sulti. wala palang sila consent unsay right and wrong.


    naunsa...kamo ra bitaw naghatag ana nga example nga matud ninyo sila adam ug eve kaniadto sa wala pa makakaon sa prutas mura silag bata
    hahaha imo man pod gi literal pag sabot, peligro. bata in a sense of pure innocence, wala pay undan unsay right and wrong.


    mao lagi wala pa silay knowledge, ug usa nila nahibaw-an nga sayop di ie to sa dihang nakakaon na sa prutas, gihatagan unta tog bisan gamay lang na pagsabot,
    naa btaw, one and only rule gihatag nila: God warned Adam and Eve not to eat of the fruit of the tree.. unsa man diay ni? tuyok na sad ta ani

    imo gusto ipangutana nganu wala gi enhance ang warming sa Ginoo?

    - Is God incapable of giving a warning sufficient to prevent disobedience?
    - Or was the problem that God had created the fruit such that it was far more tempting than adherance to his own word?
    or basin kani: Was the fall of Adam and Eve a set-up?
    Last edited by yhokz101; 03-12-2015 at 11:31 AM.

  6. #266
    Though wa gi mention ang name nga porgatory sa Bible, but naay gmention ddto about sa place nga center sa hell ug heaven.

  7. #267
    Elite Member slabs7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yhokz101 View Post
    - free will is a ability to make you own choice, wala ka gi mandoan o gi pugos..

    - Knowledge to determine or differentiate between right and wrong.
    wala gimandoan? what aboout this

    Genesis 2:17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."

    ka klaro anang mando or sugo na siya ug sa kana nga panahon wala pana silay capability to differentiate between right and wrong kay wala pa sila makakaon sa prutas, kamo ra baya nagsulti ana hap

    Quote Originally Posted by yhokz101 View Post
    dako jd nag deperensya sa duha slabs...

    sample, nag lakaw ka, kita kag tiguwang nga na dagma,samaran iya tiil. naa kay choice mo tabang ug naa pod kay choice imo pasagdan. [mao ni ang free will]. Karon, kahibaw ka unsay saktong buhaton og dli sakto.. unless insensitive jd ka. mao na ang knowedge sa pg determine sa right and wrong.
    ipakita daw sa bata kanang tiguwang nga nadagma ug samaran ang tiil kung maka justify ba ang bata sa iyang angay buhaton

    Quote Originally Posted by yhokz101 View Post
    sa kadto case nila adam and eve, naa silay choices. mo kaon ba o dli.. pero naa nay condition gi hatag nila sa Ginoo na DILI KAONON ang prutas. by that kasbot na sila unsay ginadili, ang pag kaon sa prutas.. pero mi disobey man sila sa tugon, mao na an result sa free will. Ang sakto unta nmong pangutana, nganu gihatagan paman sila ug free will, db?
    the reality wala gyud silay choice, kay kung duna pa unta wala nay limitation, pero nganong duna man? ug ang limitation mao ng silot.

    ingon ani..if kahibaw kang mamatay ka kung imo ng buhaton mobuhat pa kaha ka? ingon ana ang nature nila adam ug eve that time wala sila kahibaw unsa ang kamatayon. pero sa atong generation example: ingno ka na..motaak pa gani ka diris amoa patyon gyud taka pusilon taka, moanhi pa kaha kas amo?

    Quote Originally Posted by yhokz101 View Post
    i was talking about them, asking forgiveness.
    sila bitaw atong topic, question is unsaon nila pagpangyo ug pasaylo na after nila matubag ang pangutana sa ilang DIos gipalayas man sila lahos ug sabay curse nila

    Quote Originally Posted by yhokz101 View Post
    sama sa bata nga pure and innocent, wala kahibaw pa unsay right and wrong. kadtong pasidaan mao na to ang rule nila, mao ra to ang usa ka rule nila. unya imo man gi literal ug sabot, murag bata sila adam ug eve.. dli man to sila gagmayng bata, yaw e literal lage pagsabot tanan. Adam and Eve are capable na adto na time.. naa nay buot mo sabot sa sulti. wala palang sila consent unsay right and wrong.
    atong balikan na kamo rasad ang niingon nga katong prutasa "fruit of knowledge of good and bad" ug matud ninyo wala pa sila kahibaw silang adam ug eve ato kay mura silag bata, parehas ana karon imong giingon ang mga bata pure and enocent diba matud ninyo pure and enocent man to sila pud? naa pa di ie lain definition sa bata aning kalakiha?

    Quote Originally Posted by yhokz101 View Post
    hahaha imo man pod gi literal pag sabot, peligro. bata in a sense of pure innocence, wala pay undan unsay right and wrong.
    kay wala di ie masakop ang inyong defense sa pagkaliteral nila adam and eve nga mura sila ug bata? ako ra baya ng gikupya gikan rapud ninyo nga karon inyo napud gi deny


    Quote Originally Posted by yhokz101 View Post
    naa btaw, one and only rule gihatag nila: God warned Adam and Eve not to eat of the fruit of the tree.. unsa man diay ni? tuyok na sad ta ani
    unya kay wala baya to sila kahibaw nga sayop to, enocente baya sila.

    mangutana kog balik bi...unsa gani inyong definition ato nga prutas?

    mura sad kag wala mangupya sa tuyok...tubaga ang pangutana para dili ta magbalik-balik, kay imong style imo e divert ang pangutana to a different set of question to avoid answering the question hahahaha

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by slabs7 View Post
    wala gimandoan? what aboout this

    Genesis 2:17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."

    ka klaro anang mando or sugo na siya ug sa kana nga panahon wala pana silay capability to differentiate between right and wrong kay wala pa sila makakaon sa prutas, kamo ra baya nagsulti ana hap
    sayup ka, mandoan is pag sabot nko to forcefully tell someone what to do.. bisaya ba ka? LOL

    cge ako e simplify, gi sultihan, gi warningan, pasidana.. so by this naa na silay idea unsay dli dapat buhaton nila based sa warning. pero gi apply ghapon nila ang freewill. ila gihapon gi supak.


    ipakita daw sa bata kanang tiguwang nga nadagma ug samaran ang tiil kung maka justify ba ang bata sa iyang angay buhaton
    ayy tubaga lage sa nang nindot nga example nako hahaha.. dli nko apilon ang bata kay basin e literal na pod nmo ug sabot. hahaha!

    the reality wala gyud silay choice, kay kung duna pa unta wala nay limitation, pero nganong duna man? ug ang limitation mao ng silot.

    ingon ani..if kahibaw kang mamatay ka kung imo ng buhaton mobuhat pa kaha ka? ingon ana ang nature nila adam ug eve that time wala sila kahibaw unsa ang kamatayon. pero sa atong generation example: ingno ka na..motaak pa gani ka diris amoa patyon gyud taka pusilon taka, moanhi pa kaha kas amo?
    ang gi butang ngadto kay warning raman gud. wala gi enhance sa Ginoo ang iyang warning. ni ingon pa o cya na slabs, ayaw ni kauna ang su-an diri ha? kaonon gani nimo ni mamatay jd ka. so if imo huna2x-on, sa mere warning ra na ayaw kauna ning prutas sa tree of knowledge.. magbunga jd nag curiosity. plus naa pa jd nag tintal nila.

    The warning they'd been given was equally sufficient to protect them from knowing evil as are the warnings God gave sufficient to protect us from knowing hell. But a warning can never prevent disobedience, mao ni ang point slabs, disobedience.

    sila bitaw atong topic, question is unsaon nila pagpangyo ug pasaylo na after nila matubag ang pangutana sa ilang DIos gipalayas man sila lahos ug sabay curse nila
    - Coz they are tainted na by the sin of disobedience. they are no longer perfect and they are already corrupted. nangayu man silag pasaylo, gi pasaylo man. mao btaw maski nakasala, wa ghapon sila pasagdi sa Ginoo. after nangayu ug forgiveness then gipsaylo, mao pa sila ni hawa.. lahi man imo pag sabot. wa man cguro paka naka basa.. mura mag pinag tabuyan jd diretso bah.. hehehe murag teleserye ang peg?


    atong balikan na kamo rasad ang niingon nga katong prutasa "fruit of knowledge of good and bad" ug matud ninyo wala pa sila kahibaw silang adam ug eve ato kay mura silag bata, parehas ana karon imong giingon ang mga bata pure and enocent diba matud ninyo pure and enocent man to sila pud? naa pa di ie lain definition sa bata aning kalakiha?
    unsa may kalahian nimo ug sa bata? sa pangutok lang? hehehe.. mao nay tubag.

    Ato nalang ibutang ani for the sake sa akong explanation: pure and innocent kay wala pa kahibaw unsay evil.. but dli way buot sama sa usa ka bata kay dli pa well develop ang utok.



    kay wala di ie masakop ang inyong defense sa pagkaliteral nila adam and eve nga mura sila ug bata? ako ra baya ng gikupya gikan rapud ninyo nga karon inyo napud gi deny
    mangopya pod ka literal mo sabot hahaha.. sample man dayun bata mo dagan nya na dagma.. ang pangisip sa usa ka bata ang focus dri, sama sa usa ka bata wala pa kahibaw unsay right and wrong.


    unya kay wala baya to sila kahibaw nga sayop to, enocente baya sila.
    sabta nalng to ang warning, yaw cge balik2x hahaha tuyok na man pod lage.


    mangutana kog balik bi...unsa gani inyong definition ato nga prutas?

    mura sad kag wala mangupya sa tuyok...tubaga ang pangutana para dili ta magbalik-balik, kay imong style imo e divert ang pangutana to a different set of question to avoid answering the question hahahaha
    prutas sa tree of knowledge of right and wrong. kung kasabot ka ani.. basin lisod tugkaron.
    Last edited by yhokz101; 03-12-2015 at 12:05 PM.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by NapoleonBlownapart View Post
    I think mas pilion nako nga mabalik to akong mahal sa kinabuhi na nawala.. but if God thinks it's best for me to have another children then nganong ipugos man nako ang akong gusto nga naa may better? After all I'd see them again in resurrection.


    Good question. That's a dilemma for the folks that subscribe to Oneness/Modalistic view of God. We're Trinitarians, please don't confuse us with Modalist.
    Is it a yes/no?

  10. #270
    "Modalism is probably the most common theological error concerning the nature of God. It is a denial of the Trinity. Modalism states that God is a single person who, throughout biblical history, has revealed Himself in three modes or forms."

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