Porgatory

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

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Those who wants to discuss about PURGATORY, please do open your "ears" maski not your mind.

Nobody here , I mean not even a single one is in the position and authority affirming the existence and non existence of PURGATORY. when the Roman Catholics explains , embrace it as an answer to your questions. If you doubt it, just say so without insulting or stating nonsense replies. This is a belief so do not attempt to make an effort of discrediting it through insults, misleading information's and ad hominem's otherwise I will start reprimanding through muting and infractions , worst banning you guys .

[noy]

Theres NO indication on the Verse about 2nd chance after we die. The verse is all about Jesus as the ONLY foundation and PAUL set the foundation By the grace of God given to him. That others may Build on top of that foundation BUT with care because you will be Judge afterwards. It also convey the message that we are the TEMPLE of GOD.
The Title/topic of the Chapter is -The Church and Its Leaders, it is a message to the Churches in Corinthians. It did Not even mention things after DEATH. it only mentioned about Judgment, NOT multiple Judgement...

First of all sio, Purgatory is not a "second chance", that is a common misconception.

second of all, by 2 judgments, that doesn't mean that a soul will be judged twice nor does it imply that if a soul should go to purgatory that soul will be judged at the Final hour according to that soul's performance in purgatory LOL di man gud na retake ang purgatory..again this is a common misconception..

klarohon nato..there is only ONE judgment PER SOUL that is after we die..it's either we are saved or not..mao ra..should we need more cleansing then that's the time we go to purgatory, but nevertheless saved or we go straight to Hell.

the second judgment is the FINAL judgment. this is the total separation of good and evil. the passing of current earth and heaven..the coming of new jerusalem..heaven on earth... the Devil and his minions are judged..apil na pud ang mga tao nga buhi pa aning panahona hukman..

Finally, we can agree that Paul is talking about judgment and salvation..
A soul has laid foundation in Christ(which is the only source of a souls's salvation). On the day of the soul's judgment..(a soul that lived and died in God's grace), he will present his works(mao tong gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble) which will be tested through fire(in these verses Matt. 3:12; 2 Thess. 1:7-8 we can read that fire is used as a methapor for something that consumes)..
If that soul's works survived after being consumed with fire, Paul clearly talked about rewards for withstanding the test. now if that soul's work is consumed by that fire.. the soul shall suffer LOSS but will SAVED only as THROUGH FIRE (now in these verses: Mal. 3:2-3; Matt. 3:11; Mark 9:49, we can read that Fire is being being used as a metaphor for a cleansing/purifying agent)

lakdtud pagkasulti sio, si Jesus ra ang makahatag sa atong kaluwasan. so kung namatay ta nga tinud-anay nga nagkupot ana nga pagtuo(then we are under God's grace and friendship) so maluwas ta pero ihakyad gihapun nato tanang binuhatan nato atubangan sa Ginoo. diha mahibaw.an kung limpyo na ba ta musulod sa langit or kuwang pa tas kaligo..

Heb 9:27 "Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,"
- It just mean that after we die there is Judgement. It did NOT say RIGHT AFTER. It did NOT say anything about our spiritual STATE when we die OR did we die in his grace or NOT.
"After we die" can MEAN anything, weather Right After, or 1 day after, or 1 year after.

our Judgmet have only 2 types of verdict sio, whether we are for God or Not.
it could also mean right after we die sio. all the same.

these verses suggest that we do get judged after we die

Luke 16:22-23 "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side."

"We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. " 2 Corinthians 5:8

"I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far. " Pilippians 1:23

I dont think theres a verse out there saying we are already saved but Not yet ready to enter HEAVEN...
I cant find NO verse that states that Someone is already SAVED but still IMPURE to ENTER heaven. I think the Bible only have verse saying SAVED = enter Heaven, IMPURE = Cannot enter heaven. ONLY when we can have a verse saying we or someone is already SAVED BUT still impure to ENTER heaven, where we can SUPPORT the concept of PURGATORY.

Please refer to the exaplanation i provided above for 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 sio..

I think this idea is IN CONFLICT with these teachings...

Luke 16:
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
-HOW can someone who is according to you is IMPURE, can still be saved after Death when the verse clearly indicate there's Nothing we can do after we die?

Did i say that there's something we can do to save ourselves after we die? di lage na for second chance ang purgatory..

there are some points we need to consider first..
is the rich man in Hell? how is it that he still feels compassion when there shouldn't be compassion in hell for compassion is a grace from God? -all good things come from God, Ps 127.

matud pa sa verse nga imung gi present in Ecclesiastes 9 that "the dead know nothing, even their name is forgotten".. how is it that the rich man is able to communicate with Abrahan? on top of that..diba in Hell, wala na ang presence sa Ginoo? 2 thessalonians 1:9 .. God made a covenant with Abraham, God's presence is surely with Abraham..pero naka istorya pa man lage ang rich man ni Abraham?
usa ray conclusion ani sio, wala sa Hell ang rich man. with that being said, i'm afraid your question has been invalidated because it assumes that the rich man is in Hell.

Ecclesiastes 9:
5 For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even their name is forgotten.
- How can the BIBLE say that NO further Reward NYA duna paman diay Chance MALUWAS after ka MAMATAY nga IMPURE pa jud?

the verse simply describes Hell..so kung naa sa Hell, wala na jud nay chance for salvation...balik ta sa akong giingun, di na for second chance ang purgatory..

Daniel 12:
2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
-Can someone be saved while sleeping while Dead?

there are 2 possible options sio nganu invalid na pud imung question..hehehe
1. this chapter talks about the revelation of end times coming from the old testament..though it speaks the truth concerning eternal destination of a soul.it is however an incomplete revelation. just like eye for an eye to turning your other cheek.
2. you misunderstood the verse, otherwise Jews wouldn't have a Mourner’s Kaddish - prayers for a loved one and purification of their souls.

[Bangkilan]

wla man gud porgatoryo sa bible....☺

the word was formulated from the councel of trent

and florence which speaks of a cleansing fire all

who died in imperfectly purified.

----

Councel of trent dated 1400's Councel of flourence


dated 1500's and the first bible was put into the


context as we know it was completed about 400AD

latina vulgata by jerome.. since it was held right

after the bible so wala judkay mabasa nga word

Purgatory. right?


---

*anyway its not a place bro. its a state of purification.

[porbidaman]

the word was formulated from the councel of trent

and florence which speaks of a cleansing fire all

who died in imperfectly purified.

----

Councel of trent dated 1400's Councel of flourence


dated 1500's and the first bible was put into the


context as we know it was completed about 400AD

latina vulgata by jerome.. since it was held right

after the bible so wala judkay mabasa nga word

Purgatory. right?


---

*anyway its not a place bro. its a state of purification.

Ahhh, so the word purgatory was INVENTED by the council of Trent.
By the way bro, did the members of the council VOTED that this "state of purification" be included in the Church's teachings?

[yhokz101]

Ahhh, so the word purgatory was INVENTED by the council of Trent.
By the way bro, did the members of the council VOTED that this "state of purification" be included in the Church's teachings?

Meng, ang council of Trent was a conference of ecclesiastical dignitaries and theological experts. This was prompted during the protestant formation. The doctrines of purgatory was voted by the council of trent, and by doctrine - "a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a Church", so yes it was meant to be included in the RC Church's teachings.

Purgatory or the essence/idea of it predates way back during the first four centuries of the Christian era, the existence of purgatory was commonly taught in the Church.

The most ancient liturgies illustrate the custom in such prayers as the following: "Let us pray for our brothers who have fallen asleep in Christ, that the God of the highest charity towards men, who has summoned the soul of the deceased, may forgive him all his sin and, rendered well-disposed and friendly towards him, may call him to the assembly of the living" (Apostolic Constitutions, 8:41)

It is even evident in the ancient inscriptions found in the catacombs - "Would that God might refresh your spirit . . . Ursula, may you be received by Christ . . . Victoria, may your spirit be at rest in good"

Then in the twelfth century, Pope Innocent IV (1243-54), building upon the writings of the Fathers, expounded in detail upon the doctrine. Then the Second Council of Lyons, convened in 1274, used the teaching of Pope Innocent IV in its formal declaration on purgatory.

The next major pronouncement by the Catholic Church regarding purgatory came shortly before the Council of Trent. Then fifteen years after the Decree on Justification, and shortly before its closing sessions, the Council of Trent issued a special Decree on Purgatory.

And most recently, the Second Vatican Council in its Constitution on the Church renewed the teaching of previous councils on eschatology, including the doctrine of purgatory

~~~

Invented, you mean to make up an idea especially so as to deceive someone? NOT so. First of all, it's based on the ancient Jewish practice of prayer for the dead, as mentioned in Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin." (2 Macc 12:46). The early Christians continued this practice: "From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God."

[Bangkilan]

Ahhh, so the word purgatory was INVENTED by the council of Trent.
By the way bro, did the members of the council VOTED that this "state of purification" be included in the Church's teachings?

Yes ka klaro ana., unsaon man nimo pag kahibaw og wala gitodlo hehe ikaw gyud.! brad

mao nai saktong tubag brad ngano ang porgatoryo deli makit.an sa bibliya (check the timeline)

og osa pa kini is fully as much as what is specified as "Profession of faith" which is need to be

respected., kining mga tao nga UNGGO sa bibliya labi na dihas plaza ang pangitaon guds bibliya

word4word gyud og wala sa bibliya aw sorok dayong dugo.! this is a touchy subject "leave it

if you dont believe it" it would make for a better universe.




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[rics zalved]

maayong adlaw nimo bro...

mayng hapun bro..

i'm afraid wa na pud nimu tagae ug weight ang verse nga nag ingun "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9

kung kanang confession giingun ni john diha is just some sort of declaration of our sinfulness, nganu naa may giingun nga "HE is faithful and just WILL FORGIVE" unsay may gamit sa forgiveness kung saved na?

Therefore, John was talking about confession for forgiveness dili lang mere declaration of our sinfulness..

with that being said, palihug ko ug tubag ani bro nganu ni? kay murag wa ni nimu mabasahe..hehehe

kanang forgiveness nga iya ihatag sa imoha automatic naman na, kahibaw na siya nga ihatag na niya imoha the moment you have sinned or before pa gani nakasala kay kay Jesus already made it nga you will be forgiven for all your sins, ang giemphasize lang diha nga mapractice nimo ang acknowleding nimo sa imong sin pero you will be assured nga you will be forgiven

in Matthew 10:22, Jesus told His disciples
"And you will be hated of all men for my name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved." - murag opposite ra man ni sa once saved, always saved..kay conditional man kaayo ang dating sa gisulti ni Kristo.."he who endures"..

in Romans 13:11 Paul wrote
"For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed." - abi man nako ug once mu believe ta..sure ball na nga saved..nganu naman ni nga salvation is nearer naman nuon? hehe

and in Matthew 12:36-37 Jesus said:
"But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned" - if saved na maski sahay masayop ta sa atong mga panultihon hinlabi na sa buhat.. what need is there to give an account to God on judgment day nga saved naman kaha diba?

if we are saved by grace, still you need to work it out ang salvation like sa pagendure niya to the end.

sa kanang salvation is nearer, it means nga hapit na nato maenjoy ang benefits sa being saved, in which ang pagbalik ni Jesus Christ, kay mas nagkaduol naman ang mga adlaw sa iyang pagbalik sukad sa kadtong nibelieve na ka niya


sa matthew 12:36-37, kung imo tan-awon ang further verses pa ana, kadto ning mga Jews iyang kaistorya ani, so mg unbelievers, sa ilang sige panglibak sa Ginoo diha sila macondemn

mao bitaw bro nga mutuo jud ko sa Ginoo aside sa personal experience kay duna tay mabasa sa Bibliya sama ana imung gipangbutang nga verses.however, dako pud ug giplay nga part ang culture and familiarity, maski ning agi ko ug pagka irriligious ug agnostic theist sa una pero ang pinakaduol sa akong panabut nga religious perspective is Christianity..

now how about atong gipadako nga muslim?hindu?buddhist? ug kadtong atheistic ang orientation sa ilang family?yes they would reject Christ as God but out of HONESTY..like i said, they're just being honest to what they believed to be true..so again, God is willing to condemn an atheist for being honest?


correction bro, mutuo ko nga TANANG tao regardless of religious views kay dunay chance malangit..ang Ginoo ray mag-igo
ug kung malangit man gani sila it would ONLY be through JESUS.

i don't know how or when exactly but there has to be repentance before salvation..
now let's say, an atheist has been denying God's existence, only because mao jud nay iyang tan-aw nga insakto. honest lang jud siya..now nig kamatay niya,of course open na jud siya sa spiritual world,makita niya si Jesus, sultihan siya tanan sa iyang sayop ug uban pa..ug tungod kay kini nga atheist humble and with good conscience..mu repent, mu ingun siya pasayloa ko Lord sayop jud ko kaayo sa akong mga pagsabut.
not to be saved, but he is just genuinely humbled and sorry..
do you think an ALL MERCIFUL GOD would reject a humble and repentant heart? of course di pud ni siya pwede malangit dritso, 'cause this atheists denial of God is a great sin..asa man ni siya padulong?


dili gikan sa Ginoo? nya unsaon man nato ning giingun sa James 1:17 "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."or sa Psalm 127 nga "all good things come from God"? so ang pangutana karun, kinsa may akong tuohan ikaw nga nagingun nga ang goodness sa mga atheist kay dili gkan sa Ginoo? or ang bible nga nagingun nga ang tanang maayo gikan sa Diyos?

first of all bro, bisan pa na unsa kamaayo o kahonest ang taw ma atheist o dili, ang tan-aw sa Ginoo nila makasasala gihapon kay we are all sinned and fall short on the glory of God, kay ingon ana siya kaholy.......ang kalainan lang nganong masave ang mga believers kay giaccept nila si Jesus Christ ug by that way they justified (meaning saved by the sin's penalty which is death)

i dont know ngano kana imo interpretation anang James 1:17 nga asta ang kaayo sa mga atheists apil ana, gimean man ana kay mga spiritual gifts, gifts of salvation, etc, even gani sa previous verse ana ang topic about trials and temptations pero in the end pagabot ana sa verse 17, giignan ta nga every good and perfect naa sa Ginoo para dili ta maglonging sa mga unsay mga gift ihatag sa mga temptations.

inspired or not, some of the books in that section historically proves that Jews did believe in purgatory hence prayed for the dead..naa pa man gani gihapun na sa judaism today..
it was removed because conflict to sa new doctrine ni martin luther.
i believe inline ra ni sa topic bro because of the fact that luther removed them from the protestant canon to avoid doctrinal conflict concerning prayers for the dead.

so asa naman to ako gipangayo nimu nga early christian manuscript that would confirm with your interpretation of 1 Peter 3:19-20? nga kadtong mga imprisoned spirits kay mga anak to sa mga fallen angels?

it could be, so dili ka sure diay?
now, what we can agree is, we ought to read the bible in context diba?

so akong balikon, if you read 1 Peter 3:19-20 in context, Peter talked about suffering for righteousness' sake..Peter wasn't talking about damnation due to disobendience, Peter was talking about hope for the unrighteous because of the sacrifice of a righteous person which was Christ's redepmtive suffering..
in verse 18 we read: "For Christ also SUFFERED ONCE for sins, the RIGHTEOUS FOR THE UNRIGHTEOUS, that he might BRING us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit."again bro, NOTE: that HE might bring us to God..ang sunod ani nga verse bro, is kadto dayung si Jesus went to the spirits in prison and made proclamation..

bro, if you insist that Peter was referring to the condemned and damned spirits, why would he say it while talking about Christ's suffering for the unrighteous that he might bring them to salvation? diba out of context kaayo?

first of all, even though naa may mga manuscripts nga moconfirm ana pero dili ko morecognize kun wala na sa bible, mao nga sa bible ra ko mokuha ug source, even ang mga Jews dili morecognize anang Apocrypha like sa 2 Maccabees nga naa diha ang prayer of the dead, wala na sa ilang Tanakh o Bible nila nga Old Testament ra kutob

kana ilang Kaddish, usually praises of God na siya nga gigamit nila sasd kung naay mamatay nila para di gihapon sila mawad-an ug faith gihapon bisan namatyan, pero still tradition na nila, i dont know unsa ila basis ana

muviolate sa Hebrews 9:27 ang purgatory? Not necessarily..
after death? yes judgment..you will be judged whether you died under God's grace and friendship or not. if you did, then you either go straight to heaven and be with God or you go through purgatory to be purified. otherwise, straight to Hell..like i said before bro, purgatory is not a second chance where you can redeem yourself on your own..it is the final phase of Christ's purifying sacrifice being applied to those who died in His grace.

the term lang nga purified, diha jud usually ang conflict kay we believe that we are already cleansed by our Lord Jesus Christ

mao lage bro, pero if you read that particular passage in the book of Peter "contextually". haskang layoa ra jud sa damnation nga interpretation tawn..balikon nato, Peter was talking about the sacrifice of the righteous for the unrighteous...therefore Jesus for the sinners..example dayun niya ang passion sa Ginoo that HE might bring us to God..mao ni ang righteous act.. dayun sulti dayun niya that Jesus went to the imprisoned spirits to proclaim/preach the gospel so unsa man ni? mao ni ang mga unrighteous..apil na ta that he might bring us to God...the righteous sacrificing in bahalf of the unrighteous..see? the gist is salvation bro, it cannot be concluded otherwise..

kani nga verse bro mao ni sa usa sa pinakalisod jud iinterpret, debatable jud kaayo ni, pero kung iinterpret jud ni as spirit ug humans kay lagi para in context, daghan ug violations man gud sa ubang verses, one theory man pud ani is to know kanus-a si Jesus nipreach didto sa spirits in prison

sa laing translations bay, "in which" na siya or "in whom", sa NIV lahi nila pagkatranslate, mao nga daghan ang makamisinterpret jud kay niingon ug diretso "then he went"

unya "proclaimed" ang gigamit sa diha nga translation, lahi na sa preaching

pro·claim
prəˈklām,prōˈklām/Submit
verb
announce officially or publicly.
"the joint manifesto proclaimed that imperialism would be the coalition's chief objective"

declare something one considers important with due emphasis.
"she proclaimed that what I had said was untrue"
"the men proclaimed their innocence"

declare officially or publicly to be.
"he proclaimed James II as King of England"

synonyms: declare, announce, pronounce, state, make known, give out, advertise, publish, broadcast, promulgate, trumpet, blazon

preach
prēCH/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: preaching
deliver a sermon or religious address to an assembled group of people, typically in church.
"he preached to a large congregation"

synonyms: give/deliver a sermon, sermonize, address, speak

publicly proclaim or teach (a religious message or belief).
"a church that preaches the good news"
synonyms: proclaim, teach, spread, propagate, expound

"he preached the gospel to them"
earnestly advocate (a belief or course of action).

"my parents have always preached toleration and moderation"
synonyms: advocate, recommend, advise, urge, teach, counsel

"they preach toleration"

so apil ang mga unsaved ana sa iyang sangyaw

1 Peter 3:18-20
English Standard Version (ESV)

18 For Christ also suffered[a] once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which[b] he went and proclaimed[c] to the spirits in prison, 20 because[d] they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.

"by which", so it constructs nga lain na ang scenario sa next sentence, it could be nga wala siya niadto didto kun dili mora ra ug niingon "Si Jesus nga namatay nga niadto usab sa mga espirito kaniadto sa prisohan"

in the sense nga murag gaflashback si Jesus kadtong pre-incarnated pa siya in the days of Noah kadtong gihimo pa ang ark, in which kana nga "whom" ang Holy Spirit na siya nag nagpreach, unya ang Holy Spirit, gigamit niya si Noah kay to preach kay pwede man gamiton sa una ang mga taw by the Holy Spirit

2 Peter 1:21
New International Version (NIV)

21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

then kana nga prisoners, kung mga taw jud ni siya, mofit na sa explanation nga prisoners ni sa sin nila sa days of Noah unya ang nagpreach ato si Noah nga moved by the Holy Spirit, kay si Jesus ra man pud ang makafree nila

John 8:34-36
New International Version (NIV)

34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

nga ang gapriso si Satan

Isaiah 14:16-17
King James Version (KJV)

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

then kung let us give the benefit of the doubt sa imong sulti nga si Jesus after he died he went to the human spirits in prison, it could be, pero niproclaim siya nga victorious na siya, pero wala silay labot sa salvation, kay kung apil sila, contradiction na pud na sa ubang verses labi na ani

Hebrews 9:27
King James Version (KJV)

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

actually, naay ingon ani nga verse

Ephesians 4:8-10
King James Version (KJV)

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

mao ni ang mga saved nga naa sa pikas compartment sa Hades (Abraham's Bosom/Side) nga worthy na sila moadto sa heaven (or some say Paradise pa daw, not the actual heaven) kay namatay na si Jesus, kay sa una man gud covering of sin ra man tong magpatay sila ug mga animals, temporary ra, kani permanent na sa ilaha mao nga makasulod na sila sa langit, as well as who died nga saved after ani nga event, kadtong sa pikas compartment sila na ang nabilin, so it could be pud nga gidungan sila ug proclaim/preach, pero we are not sure pud ana sad

another theory man pud suggests nga until today duha pa compartment gihapon ang Hades, ang mga saved wala pa pasak-a until the day of judgment, pero ang Abraham's Bosom ug Paradise are the same ra sila...

[geremarv]

the word was formulated from the councel of trent

and florence which speaks of a cleansing fire all

who died in imperfectly purified.

----

Councel of trent dated 1400's Councel of flourence


dated 1500's and the first bible was put into the


context as we know it was completed about 400AD

latina vulgata by jerome.. since it was held right

after the bible so wala judkay mabasa nga word

Purgatory. right?


---

*anyway its not a place bro. its a state of purification.

what u mean by purification as porgatory DBA ang dpat we repent our sin b4 u die or coming of Christ correct me f im wrong

[porbidaman]

Yes ka klaro ana., unsaon man nimo pag kahibaw og wala gitodlo hehe ikaw gyud.! brad

mao nai saktong tubag brad ngano ang porgatoryo deli makit.an sa bibliya (check the timeline)

og osa pa kini is fully as much as what is specified as "Profession of faith" which is need to be

respected., kining mga tao nga UNGGO sa bibliya labi na dihas plaza ang pangitaon guds bibliya

word4word gyud og wala sa bibliya aw sorok dayong dugo.! this is a touchy subject "leave it

if you dont believe it" it would make for a better universe.




.....

I consider this to be an interesting subject that needs to be discussed unless highly-sensitive believers refused to answered "in-depth". And those "UNGGO" in the plazas do raised good points regarding RC, am I right?

[slabs7]

labada nas ulo ani nga thread...nagkayamukat ng agi, wla ni kalahian sa uban thread