Porgatory

[rics zalved]

---

ingon dili pinugos? ngano ug dili motuman silotan man? mura na siya siyag extortionists.

mohatag mo nako ug igong kantidad bugti sa inyong proteksyon

someway as saying "Love me and have faith on me and I will save you

first of all, gihatagan man pud na ug daghan chance ang mga taw nga mobalik sa iyaha, so dili na pud na excuse na dili na sila silotan

and also tanang butang including kita, ang Ginoo ang tag-iya so he wants nga ok tanan sa iyaha kay perfect kaayo siya ug holy, pero since di man ta perfect mao nga gihatag niya iyang anak to make us perfect, in that way he is merciful gihapon aside from being just

so all we need to do is accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, ingon ana ra kamerciful si God para sa atoa,

so kung disobedient gihapon ang usa ka taw, silotan jud niya, in that way he is just

[MasterK]

anyway back to the topicnaglibog sad q why der s praying for the soul for the porgatory...kinsai kabalo pls. share tanx

dia ra ai, gitubag na ni imo pangutana sa Post #286

... Based jd ni cya sa jewish tradition where it is a practice of prayer for the dead, as mentioned in Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin." (2 Macc 12:46)

daghan man pod lain sect sa Christian churches na dli mo tuo sa Maccabees, so this is depending on kinsay mo tuo..

Purgatory sa mga Catholic is place or a state where it helps us hope in perfection even when we can't completely achieve it in this life.

"Purgatory reveals the depth of God's mercy: even those who are not yet perfect can attain the fullness of heaven."

[SioDenz]

in other words ur afraid in doing bad things if u know Christ...☺

Not really

The message of God is LOVE. We follow God, we Do good works Because We LOVE God, NOT because we are Afraid and NOT because its a REQUIREMENT for Salvation.

[SioDenz]

ako e simple nalang boss, kung mo ingon ko good works, implied na na nga dapat naa kay true faith and believe in God. sa ako lage pagka sulti need nmo e practice ang maayung buhat. nganu naka ingon man ka dli requirement? cge daw kung faith ra imong basehan ayaw sunod sa mga buhat na angay Christiyano. ang imo man gud na pag sabot cguro, good deeds alone, which is very wrong and I didnt say good deeds/works ra ang maka luwas. sama sa kani kang James 2:17 "In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." if nakuha na nmo na concept, maka ingon ka na in order to have a wokring faith you must accompany it with action which is pleasing to the Lord. then why naka ingon man ka dli requirement? If naa naka faith then do you stop there? Dili db? You continue to have faith and practice it, accompany your faith with your actions. Imo ma jd cguro huna2x action alone can save.

ani nlan, Unsay pasabot nimu if mu ingun ka nga REQUIREMENT sa kaluwasan ang maayung Buhat? di ba sa Bisaya pa KINAHANGLAN nga NAA na siya PARA ka MALUWAS?


Kay galibog ko sa imung stand, usahay mu ingun ka REsult ang maayung buhat sa Kaluwasan, nya usahay Requirement...

Sa ako pagsabot ang Word nga REQUIREMENT kinahanglan NAA ka ana or Nakabuhat ka ana para ka maluwas. Meaning REQUIRED ka nga naa ka ana...
Like for example, If ma luto kag SINIGANG, Dapat naa kay Pa aslom nga Ingredients. Ang pa aslom MAO Nay Main REQUIREMENT para makahimu kag SINIGANG. If wala kay Pa aslom, Wala kay REQUIRED nga ingredients - DILI na Sinigang.. mao nay pagsabot nko sa Requirement...

Now, Duna man kay gi example sa Bibliya nga matud pa nimu WALA naka Comply sa REQUIREMENT pero naluwas. unsaon man nimu pag explain about Good works as REQUIREMENT?

sa kani imong sulti sumpaki sai imong ingon na dli requirement, kay nganu ni follow gud na ang good works sa faith... so nag exist ang good works even if ingon na result sa imong faith.

the meaning of the word EXIST and REQUIREMENT are NOT the same.

I Did NOT deny the EXISTING of GOOD works if you believed in God, I just said Good are the RESULT not a REQUIREMENT.

So i think there's no conflict.

Who are we to judge God if ever by that moment nag repent ug gi accept niya ang Ginoo.. cguro sa sitwasyon sa thief, exception to considering sa sitwasyon, same sa na paralayze if ever iyang gi accept niya ang Ginoo ug nag repent.

I am not Judging GOD, I just presented a Scenario in the BIBLE that there is an instance that the CONCEPT of GOOD WORKS as a REQUIREMENT for Salvation was NOT Fullfilled.

its more like questioning the Concept of Man rather than God.

then you have it, it is a requirement, IF you practice good faith in God.

not really

Requirement is WHAT you NEED TO DO, IT may LEAD you BEING FORCED to DO just to Appease God or to BE SAVED.

Manifestation or RESULT or Expression or EFFECT is WHAT you WILLINGLY and Happily and NATURALLY DO BECAUSE of what you Believe. And you will NEVER BE in a Situation that You may be FORCED to DO. you will NEVER go into sa Situation and Say - "I will do this so that i will be SAVED because doing this is a REQUIREMENT Set for Salvation...."

Thats the difference i think..

[yhokz101]

the problem man gud sa example na imo gihatag kay a person who cannot do work, e.g good works kay paralyze na. From that concept jd, logically dli na required na iyaha ang paghimo ug good deeds out sa iyang faith sa Ginoo. For him to be saved is to have a repentant heart and accept God sa iya life. Sa ako na sulti there are exceptions based in situations like this. Same sa akong gi cite sa repentant thief sa cross, neither can do an actual deeds due to physical limitation. Tha's how we are different from them.

Ga libog ka kay from the beginning nag assume man ka nga good deeds alone can save or para ma attain ang kaluwasan, if imo subayon ang akong mga sutli wko nag emphasize ana.

True christian who accept Christ in his life and heart and have truly/heartily repented of his sins must do accordingly sa unsay gi required as a true chirstian. Now, nganu naka ingon ko requirements, based ni sa akong concept na kita, buhi ug able pa mo lihok must do and will continue to do good towards sa kaugalinogn ug sa uban isip usa ka christiyano. And wala nmo na gets is why i emphasize it is a requirement as a true christian.. kay kung faith ra ug way action is a dead faith.

Requirement is WHAT you NEED TO DO, IT may LEAD you BEING FORCED to DO just to Appease God or to BE SAVED.

This is true in a sense that God required us to continue to do good if we believe and accept Him in our life. Agree ka ani? You NEED to to good works to prove your faith in God. Now forced (as what you implied, not me) is of different concept since we do have a choice (i.e. freewill), mao gani from time to time we fail coz we are imperfect so makasala ghapon ta. God wants us to have a repentant heart, accept Him in our life and continue to avoid evil and do good works. I can see that part of your perception of Catholics is: "We forced do good (apil na simba) in order nga dli ta ma impyerno, or basin silutan ta sa Ginoo, masuko Cya." this is a common mistake and still practice by some but totally wrong since this is out of fear, mao cguro naka ingon ka na force, wherein fact I did not implied that word to any of my comment.

Sa imong idea is having faith then as a result you do good.. but cant you see this is the same sa ako concept. the only thing dli nmo ma accept o na miss out is and idea na ako gi ingon na "10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." - 10 of Ephesians Chapter 2. And you can't totally neglect doing good works in order to be saved, not only faith, but faith with actions in order to be saved.. mao ni ang akong punto. Kinahanglan ni sila mag go hand in hand, mao nang naka ingon ko requirements.

sa imong example, ang pa aslom is a requirement sama sa good works.. matawag diay ka ug tinuod na Christiyano kung sa pulong lang wala sa buhat? db?

Now, Duna man kay gi example sa Bibliya nga matud pa nimu WALA naka Comply sa REQUIREMENT pero naluwas. unsaon man nimu pag explain about Good works as REQUIREMENT?

mao ni akong reply before: "For the thief, that was his moment of conversion. Para sa iya kadtong hitaboa, it was his baptism. At that point, nawala ang tanan niyang sala, he was forgiven and wiped out clean ang iyang kalag. I believe that right after baptism, salvation is assured. Pero kung na buhi pa tong thief unya padayun sa iyang maka sasala na buhat, dli to cya mahilangit." on post #231

I Did NOT deny the EXISTING of GOOD works if you believed in God, I just said Good are the RESULT not a REQUIREMENT

You don't deny but how you put good deeds is a result, true enough as a result. but is it automatic? No, this you will have to willfully do and comply and continue to do so until you die. Meaning you are required to do, to practice in action. How you put it as Existing, is somehow automatic, whereas it is not.

[letsee!]

porgatoryo ron ang akong kahimtang

kay naunsa diay imo kahimtang wynn...

[geremarv]

porgatory is dis world we are all porgatory

[MasterK]

OT: ang Topic Faith and Works nindot gyud tukion pero mas maau diri lang ipadayon ug husay aron dili ta mayayay:
https://www.istorya.net/forums/genera...by+faith+alone

OnT: Purgatory, mura diay quarintinas para walay virus(sin) makasulod sa Langit

[noy]

first of all bay salamat sad kaayo sa interesting sad nga discussion nato hehe, hopefully di lang unta ni personalay unya friends ra gihapon ta diri, ang atoa ra man kay nagshare ra ta sa atong faith ug para pud sa mga nivisit ani nga nashare-an pud nato sila , honestly nachallenge baya jud ko nimo hehe
gituman ra man pud nato ang giingon sa bible

i'd take that as a compliment..hehehehe
way kaso na bai. istorya ra gud ning ato..kompara2x sa mga doktrina ba..kay at the end of the day, we'll end up believing whatever it is we want to believe..hehehe

yes, it is a one time deal, we are justified na through our faith in Jesus iya na gipapas atong mga sala, sa una, karon, ug sa mga umaabot pa nimong sala
mao nga kadtong hapit na siya mamatay niingon siya nga natapos na iyang pagbayad sa tanang natong mga sala ug justified na ta by faith, wa na tay lain buhaton pa,
first of all you have an eternal salvation if you accept heartily si Jesus

so one time deal imung answer. well, in one sense, it really is, because Salvation only comes through Christ's finished work in Calvary.
however, what's in question is the application.
anyway, klaro na jud ta sa imung perspective bro, maski pa ug makasala kay SAVED na..meaning once saved, always saved.

in Matthew 10:22, Jesus told His disciples
"And you will be hated of all men for my name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved." - murag opposite ra man ni sa once saved, always saved..kay conditional man kaayo ang dating sa gisulti ni Kristo.."he who endures"..

in Romans 13:11 Paul wrote
"For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed." - abi man nako ug once mu believe ta..sure ball na nga saved..nganu naman ni nga salvation is nearer naman nuon? hehe

and in Matthew 12:36-37 Jesus said:
"But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned" - if saved na maski sahay masayop ta sa atong mga panultihon hinlabi na sa buhat.. what need is there to give an account to God on judgment day nga saved naman kaha diba?

pero ang issue nato karon is kani nga verse
so unsaon na pagreconcile sa above verses nako ganina?
it is just like a Father and child relationship, kung makasala ang anak nawala lang ang fellowship niya sa iyang Father kay naa nay "pagtatampo", pero it does not mean nga nawala ang love sa Father sa anak, pero kung mangayo ug pasaylo ang anak, ang Father syempre pasayloon jud dayon niya kay love man niya
parehas ra na ni God, kun makasala ta, ang fellowship mawala for a while until you confess, it does not mean nga nawala na atong salvation basing sa mga above verses nato ganina, naa ang salvation gihapon pero ang fellowship ang nawala until you confess with the Lord,

i'm afraid wala nimu nahatagi ug weight ang verse that says "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. " . ang point ani bro, If saved na, what's the need for a confession? nga matud pa nimu maski pag mawala ang fellowship di mawala ang salvation. karun, kay gi emphasize man ni ni Paul nuon nga we need to confess to be forgiven. moreover, kung saved na what's there to forgive?

again, if you truly accept Jesus, magconfess jud ka pirmi everytime makasala ka

i'm afraid nag contradict na ni sa imung once saved, always saved bro.. kung imung perspective atong basehan, if one truly accepts Jesus, he is already saved and wa nay kaso hasta ang mga future sins.. so akong balikon akong pangutana, if saved na, why is there a need to confess? ug labaw sa tanan nganu kinahanglan paman ta ma forgiven nga SAVED naman gani diba?

sa kadtong imong sample nga nikalit kamatay unya wala kapangayo ug pasaylo, well kabalo naman siguro si Lord kung naa ba jud to siya intention mangayo pasaylo if given a chance, kung heartily niya giaccept si Jesus, then naa jud siya intention pero wala lay time kay namatay dayon, so the salvation is still there

contradictory gihapun bro, granted nga tinud.anay niya gidawat si Kristo matud pa nimu, SAVED na jud hasta future sins papas na.. karun ingun na pud ka nga kita ang Ginoo sa iyang intention nga mangayo ug pasaylo..balik na pud ta sa akong pangutana...unsa may need sa forgiveness if saved na? hehehe

nig ampo nimu bro ba, mangayo ka pasaylo sa imung mga sala? nganu mangayo man ka ug pasaylo nga SAVED naman kaha ka?

first of all di man siguro niya excuse nga wala siya kaila ni God sa iyang gihimo sa kalibutan nga lisod gani gihapon iexplain sa science or bisan sa atong hunahuna
pero instead

hehehe.murag wa man nag connect imung tubag sa akong gi istorya bro..or basin wa lang ko ka G sa imung point. enlighten me please..
now, kung unsa man ganiy reason sa Atheist nganu Atheist siya..sa akong example, it was out of honesty..mao lang jud ang iyang pagsabut nga nakuha..
prehas sa mga buddhist, muslims, hindus and others esp if maoy ilang nadak.an nga perspective.. they rejected christianity because mao ilang tan-aw nga insakto..out of honesty..kung sayop sila, sayop sila but they're just being honest to what they believed to be true..
mao nangutana ko nimu, so God is willing to condemn that atheist for being honest?
palihug daw ko ug tubag bro..

naa man pud nga atheist nga buotan, pero dili na ang makaluwas nila, kay without faith it is impossible to please God

speaking of goodness, naa pa koy usa ka question bro nga wala nimu gitubag..akong balikon
would you agree that this person's goodness is a grace from God bro? see James 1:17 . If no, where does this person's goodness come from? if Yes, nganu man nga duna man siyay goodness if di man diay siya mu matter sa Ginoo kay i imperno raman kaha diay matud pa nimu?

Yes of course, it is impossible to please God without Faith..pero di ni para sa atheist bro but For the so called believers.
in context kanang Hebrew 11, it refers to the people of the Church and their Faith. para na sa mga tao nga apil sa Kristohanong pundok. Paul was NOT talking about the SAVING FAITH here...rather the kind of Faith that strengthens the faithful in times of trials and suffering..mao bitaw gilaray ni paul ang mga acts of faith sa mga prophets during harsdhips..therefore, dili ni mu apply sa mga atheist bro 'cause wa man na silay labut sa tabo sa banay..hehehe..
we can read in verse 6 "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because ANYONE WHO COMES to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." see? anyone who comes to him...so kung ikaw naa ka sa pundok.. unya huyang imung faith...di malipay ang Ginoo..but in the case of atheists' lack of faith, that is an entirely different story bro..

ang kanang pagkajust ni God nga merciful at the same time is he is just sa mga makasasala, bisan ug believer pa ka idiscipline gihapon ka pero wala nawala imo salvation, just like again sa Father-child relationship
samot na siguro tong dili na jud ana sa Ginoo, kadtong mga unsaved, naa jud to sila silot,
ang pagkamerciful sa Ginoo is gihatag niya ang anak para sa atoa to be saved para dili ta mapareha sa mga dili niya anak

uu bro mutuo ko nga just ang Ginoo but i don't think what you're saying here is how God executes justice. sorry.

kanang mga spirits sa prison mga demons/fallen angels man na, dili na mga spirits sa taw, another reference ana kay sa Book of Jude,
another theory ana is ang mga Nephilims ni sa early part sa Genesis kadtong nakigmate ang mga demons sa mga taw, so to discourage them nga makahimo sila ana balik pagkahuman sa flood, so gipriso na sila

hmmm..can you prove that 1 Peter 3:19-20 is to be understood as such? can you present early Christian mauscripts that would confirm your interpretation?
'cause i believe that interpretation only surfaced after 16th century AD. after Martin Luther removed the deuterocanonical books in the old testament.

the verse in Jude does not suggest that these fallen angels are already in prison..
note that the verse concluded with "bound with everlasting chains for judgment ON THE GREAT DAY". meaning umaabut pa na..future tense..kept in the darkness in the sense that they cannot be in the light..just sa evil cannot dwell in goodness.
usa pa, kung nangapriso pa na sila nganu perting daghanang mga demonyo karun? mu possess pa man gani ang uban..ang uban kada adlaw/oras/minuto ug sigundo sige ug panintal nato to sin..

about sa purpose ni Jesus diha, it could be nga nagpreach sya nga he is victorious diha na after he died nga daghan na ang saved tungod sa successful niya nga mission, kay before siya namatay niingon naman to siya nga IT IS FINISHED, so mao nay iyang gisulti nila, though wala silay labot na kay apil man sila sa iglalabay na sa lake of fire

Preach? preach for damnation? preaching is to proclaim hope bro..
if you read 1 Peter 3:19-20 in context, Peter talked about suffering for righteousness' sake..Peter wasn't talking about damnation due to disobendience, Peter was talking about Hope in the midst of suffering..
he was talking about Christ's redepmtive suffering..
in verse 18 we read: "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous FOR THE UNRIGHTEOUS, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit." NOTE: that HE might bring us to God..ang sunod ani nga verse bro, is kadto dayung si Jesus went to the spirits in prison and made proclamation..diba layo ra kaayo ang DAMNATION ani nga context?

[rics zalved]

so one time deal imung answer. well, in one sense, it really is, because Salvation only comes through Christ's finished work in Calvary.
however, what's in question is the application.
anyway, klaro na jud ta sa imung perspective bro, maski pa ug makasala kay SAVED na..meaning once saved, always saved.

in Matthew 10:22, Jesus told His disciples
"And you will be hated of all men for my name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved." - murag opposite ra man ni sa once saved, always saved..kay conditional man kaayo ang dating sa gisulti ni Kristo.."he who endures"..

in Romans 13:11 Paul wrote
"For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed." - abi man nako ug once mu believe ta..sure ball na nga saved..nganu naman ni nga salvation is nearer naman nuon? hehe

and in Matthew 12:36-37 Jesus said:
"But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned" - if saved na maski sahay masayop ta sa atong mga panultihon hinlabi na sa buhat.. what need is there to give an account to God on judgment day nga saved naman kaha diba?

i'm afraid wala nimu nahatagi ug weight ang verse that says "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. " . ang point ani bro, If saved na, what's the need for a confession? nga matud pa nimu maski pag mawala ang fellowship di mawala ang salvation. karun, kay gi emphasize man ni ni Paul nuon nga we need to confess to be forgiven. moreover, kung saved na what's there to forgive?

i'm afraid nag contradict na ni sa imung once saved, always saved bro.. kung imung perspective atong basehan, if one truly accepts Jesus, he is already saved and wa nay kaso hasta ang mga future sins.. so akong balikon akong pangutana, if saved na, why is there a need to confess? ug labaw sa tanan nganu kinahanglan paman ta ma forgiven nga SAVED naman gani diba?

contradictory gihapun bro, granted nga tinud.anay niya gidawat si Kristo matud pa nimu, SAVED na jud hasta future sins papas na.. karun ingun na pud ka nga kita ang Ginoo sa iyang intention nga mangayo ug pasaylo..balik na pud ta sa akong pangutana...unsa may need sa forgiveness if saved na? hehehe

nig ampo nimu bro ba, mangayo ka pasaylo sa imung mga sala? nganu mangayo man ka ug pasaylo nga SAVED naman kaha ka?

to expound lang sa explanation nako, first of all tan-awon nato ang meaning sa "confess"

con·fess
kənˈfes/

1) admit or state that one has committed a crime or is at fault in some way.
2) admit or acknowledge something reluctantly, typically because one feels slightly ashamed or embarrassed.

si God gusto niya sa atoa nga maaware ta sa atong nahimo nga sala, gusto niya nga mapractice nato ang art of acknowledging our sins by admitting it though confession, it does not mean nga to confess to be forgiven to have salvation, but to confess because you are already forgiven and saved to do that, wala nawala atong salvation pero gusto niya gihapon nga as a saved person, mapractice ang humility nato kay God through confession

tungod si love ni God sa atoa as a Father, pasayloon jud ta niya pirmi as we are God's children..

hehehe.murag wa man nag connect imung tubag sa akong gi istorya bro..or basin wa lang ko ka G sa imung point. enlighten me please..
now, kung unsa man ganiy reason sa Atheist nganu Atheist siya..sa akong example, it was out of honesty..mao lang jud ang iyang pagsabut nga nakuha..
prehas sa mga buddhist, muslims, hindus and others esp if maoy ilang nadak.an nga perspective.. they rejected christianity because mao ilang tan-aw nga insakto..out of honesty..kung sayop sila, sayop sila but they're just being honest to what they believed to be true..
mao nangutana ko nimu, so God is willing to condemn that atheist for being honest?
palihug daw ko ug tubag bro..

what i mean bro si God nagprovide ug means nga motoo ta niya unya sa tanang religions, ang Christianity ang mas naay basis, all we need to do lang jud is open minded ta to study the Bible and compare to others

just to make sa a sample lang

1) sa Bible, it says the earth is spherical whereas pila ka hundreds of years nga naprove na siya kay ingon nila the earth is flat daw

Isaiah 40:22

It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;

2) sa Bible, it says earth floats in space whereas sa uban religions ingon nila ang earth gatungtong sa elephant daw o gigunitan ni Atlas, then pila ka hundreds of years usa pa ni naproven jud sa science

Job 26:7

He stretches out the north over the void and hangs the earth on nothing.

3) Sa Bible, gidescribe na daan ang usa ka scientific concept nga water cycle (evaporation of water to precipation), giunsa pud kaha sa writer pagkabalo ani nga di pa man advanced ang science kaniadto

Amos 9:6

who builds his upper chambers in the heavens and founds his vault upon the earth; who calls for the waters of the sea and pours them out upon the surface of the earth— the LORD is his name.

Job 36:27-28
New International Version (NIV)

27 “He draws up the drops of water,
which distill as rain to the streams[a];
28 the clouds pour down their moisture
and abundant showers fall on mankind.

Amos 5:8
New International Version (NIV)

He who made the Pleiades and Orion,
who turns midnight into dawn
and darkens day into night,
who calls for the waters of the sea
and pours them out over the face of the land—
the Lord is his name.

4) sa panahon sa mga Israelita, niingon ang Ginoo ang bata tulion jud sa ika 8 ka adlaw, pero nganong ika 8 nga adlaw man jud? it was during the 1950s pa nadiscover nga ang "photrombin", kana siya giproduce na sa Vitamin K nga responsible sa pagblood clotting kay naa diay sa highest peak inig 8th day sa bata, more than 100% sa iyang normal, so makablood clott siya dayon, kay inig 9th day onwards ana mohinay ug balik ang "photrombin", ug that is the only time in the life sa usa ka lalaki nga ingon ana ang scenario, so God's knows already because he is all knowing

Genesis 17:12
New International Version (NIV)

For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring.

5) about sa Noah's Ark, perfect kaayo ang dimensions nga ang length is 6 times longer than the width para molutaw sa tubig which is instructed ni God, so God knew it already kay World War 2 pa lang nila na confirm nga perfect diay kaayo ni nga measurement pangcargo (kay pangcargo man ang purpose sa ark, dili for speed)

Genesis 6:15
New International Version (NIV)

This is how you are to build it: The ark is to be three hundred cubits long, fifty cubits wide and thirty cubits high.

and many more pa nga naprove sa science, aside pa na sa archaeology, history, prophecies, etc. nothing comes close to the Bible and Christianity, di lang nato imention pa diri tanan kay mosamot pa kataas kaayo unya dili man sad na ang main topic sad, so it is not an excuse nga mao na jud ila naandan nga pagtoo, di lang sila open minded

ug usa pa, other religions kay daghan kaayo ug requirements, rituals, traditions, etc., para malangit sa ilaha whereas ang real Christianity is only accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior kay si God na ang gaeffort sa imong salvation unlike sa lain religions nga ikaw pa ang moeffort para masave which makes it unique to others

si God na mismo gaingon nga silotan niya ang wa kaila og mosupak niya

2 Thessalonians 1:8
New International Version (NIV)

He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

speaking of goodness, naa pa koy usa ka question bro nga wala nimu gitubag..akong balikon
would you agree that this person's goodness is a grace from God bro? see James 1:17 . If no, where does this person's goodness come from? if Yes, nganu man nga duna man siyay goodness if di man diay siya mu matter sa Ginoo kay i imperno raman kaha diay matud pa nimu?

Yes of course, it is impossible to please God without Faith..pero di ni para sa atheist bro but For the so called believers.
in context kanang Hebrew 11, it refers to the people of the Church and their Faith. para na sa mga tao nga apil sa Kristohanong pundok. Paul was NOT talking about the SAVING FAITH here...rather the kind of Faith that strengthens the faithful in times of trials and suffering..mao bitaw gilaray ni paul ang mga acts of faith sa mga prophets during harsdhips..therefore, dili ni mu apply sa mga atheist bro 'cause wa man na silay labut sa tabo sa banay..hehehe..
we can read in verse 6 "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because ANYONE WHO COMES to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." see? anyone who comes to him...so kung ikaw naa ka sa pundok.. unya huyang imung faith...di malipay ang Ginoo..but in the case of atheists' lack of faith, that is an entirely different story bro..

uu bro mutuo ko nga just ang Ginoo but i don't think what you're saying here is how God executes justice. sorry.

first of all, motoo diay ka bro nga kanang mga good atheist makasaka pa na didto sa langit? i think mao sad ni ingon ni Pope Francis sad, it is a big question to me,

it is only through Jesus ra jud to enter heaven

John 14:6
New International Version (NIV)

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

John 3:16
New International Version (NIV)

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

possible man nga naay mga taw nga dili motoo ug Ginoo pero maayo silang taw, in their own freewill na nila nga magmaayo sila, dili na gikan sa Ginoo

hmmm..can you prove that 1 Peter 3:19-20 is to be understood as such? can you present early Christian mauscripts that would confirm your interpretation?
'cause i believe that interpretation only surfaced after 16th century AD. after Martin Luther removed the deuterocanonical books in the old testament.

the verse in Jude does not suggest that these fallen angels are already in prison..
note that the verse concluded with "bound with everlasting chains for judgment ON THE GREAT DAY". meaning umaabut pa na..future tense..kept in the darkness in the sense that they cannot be in the light..just sa evil cannot dwell in goodness.
usa pa, kung nangapriso pa na sila nganu perting daghanang mga demonyo karun? mu possess pa man gani ang uban..ang uban kada adlaw/oras/minuto ug sigundo sige ug panintal nato to sin..


Preach? preach for damnation? preaching is to proclaim hope bro..
if you read 1 Peter 3:19-20 in context, Peter talked about suffering for righteousness' sake..Peter wasn't talking about damnation due to disobendience, Peter was talking about Hope in the midst of suffering..
he was talking about Christ's redepmtive suffering..
in verse 18 we read: "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous FOR THE UNRIGHTEOUS, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit." NOTE: that HE might bring us to God..ang sunod ani nga verse bro, is kadto dayung si Jesus went to the spirits in prison and made proclamation..diba layo ra kaayo ang DAMNATION ani nga context?

deuterocanonical books or apocrypha were removed because they are not inspired, di lang ta na diskusyonan diri kay di man sad ang main topic pud

first of all if you refer to spirits, sa Bible it refers commonly the Holy Spirit, Spirit ni Jesus, angels, and demons

Hebrews 1:14
New International Version (NIV)

Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

Mark 1:23
New International Version (NIV)

Just then a man in their synagogue who was possessed by an impure spirit cried out,

Matthew 27:50
New International Version (NIV)

And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

John 14:17
New International Version (NIV)

the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

although humans have spirits

Hebrews 4:12New International Version (NIV)

12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

pero ang term nga spirits sa Bible dili na gigamit na sa mga taw, well so far sa ako lang nabantayan, i dont know kung naa ba tay mabasahan ana nga girefer jud na sa taw

so kanang spirits of the prison, as i said, it could be nga ang mga Nephilims na in days of Noah, Nephilims are also angels nga nakigmate sa mga taw sa unang panahon, so ang uban demons nakabuhi pa ron

Genesis 6:4
New International Version (NIV)

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

ug usa pa dili na sad na pwede nga sa taw unya tagaan ug hope pud na kay moviolate na diri

Hebrews 9:27
King James Version (KJV)

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

sa purpose pud ni Jesus, other translations kay proclaimed man pud, proclaimed siya nga victorious na siya