***christian apologetics***

[tuffie09]

---

sa mga believers diri, di lang nato pugson ang di mo-tuo... why waste time on them when there are many others who are willing to listen.. atleast atoa na sila na-sharean..

for once, ka isa ra ha!

stop believing and start questioning.

[Kenshiro]

Eph 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."

kindly expalin this. so puede ra mamayot ko kay by grace man ang salvation?

Goodworks are the results of being saved.
Not, being saved as the result of Goodworks.

Because no can be saved by his own good works. Its only through accepting Christ that we can be saved. Good works will come naturally.
If you do Good works on your own well that is good but it doesn't save you.
Look at extremists terrorist they think they are doing the "right" thing who plots cowardly acts against innocent people.
You can never understand the gift of Grace if you put self righteousness above grace like the extremist terrorist.

For Christianity they follow these principles. (note if this is true Christianity not false Christianity)
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God.
Mathew 5:9
"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.
Matthew 26:52

For vengeance of injustice and wickedness is not ours:
For with fire and with his sword the LORD will execute judgment upon all men, and many will be those slain by the LORD.
Isaiah 66:16

We proclaim the message of the all powerful creator.
"I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, 'Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.'" (Revelation 14:6,7 KJV)

"There followed another angel, saying, 'Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.'" (Revelation 14:8 KJV)

"The third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, 'If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment will ascend for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.'" (Revelation 14:9-12 KJV)

[ketllac]

Usahay kining mga sekta mototuk lang usa ka verse sa bible kay lagi niingon Eph 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; Faith na dayon ang unang requirements. Mao doctrina sa sola gracia nga unbliblical. Pero wala tan awa ang uban verse aron ma reconcile sama ani.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8

kaklaro ani nga di sad ka ma save kung mo buhat kag daotan. so naa gyuy action nga ikaduhang requirement.

Kung ato ni ireconcile dili ato binuhatan kundi ang ato binuhatan inubanan sa pagtuo. vice versa. Nya bahala na si Kristo nimo at least sure ka nga naa nimo ang mga requirements nga maluwas. Kay ang pag tuo mahimong buhi kung naay buhat.

dili Magical or automatic nga kung naa ka faith mo result dayon sa maayong buhat kay ang tawo mo backslide na ug biblical na. now kung ang maayong buhat resulta sa faith unsaon nimo pag justify anang mga serial killer sa america nga grabeg pagtuo ni Jesus pero mga criminal? daghan ayo Christiano sa pag tuo pero salawayon sa katilingban. unsaon man na nimo nga mura man effortless ang pagbuhat ug maayo kuno kung naa naka faith?

Kabalo ba ka nga si Martin Luther naninguha pag wala sa James nga Libro sa bible? kay mo sukwahi man sa iya sola Gracia nga theory.

[WordofGod]

for once, ka isa ra ha!

stop believing and start questioning.

And if the answer to the most profound questions in life-

origin-meaning-morality-destiny

will lead you to the cross of Christ then,

it'll drive you to stop questioning and start believing what it truly means!

[Kenshiro]

Usahay kining mga sekta mototuk lang usa ka verse sa bible kay lagi niingon Eph 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; Faith na dayon ang unang requirements. Mao doctrina sa sola gracia nga unbliblical. Pero wala tan awa ang uban verse aron ma reconcile sama ani.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8

kaklaro ani nga di sad ka ma save kung mo buhat kag daotan. so naa gyuy action nga ikaduhang requirement.

Kung ato ni ireconcile dili ato binuhatan kundi ang ato binuhatan inubanan sa pagtuo. vice versa. Nya bahala na si Kristo nimo at least sure ka nga naa nimo ang mga requirements nga maluwas. Kay ang pag tuo mahimong buhi kung naay buhat.

dili Magical or automatic nga kung naa ka faith mo result dayon sa maayong buhat kay ang tawo mo backslide na ug biblical na. now kung ang maayong buhat resulta sa faith unsaon nimo pag justify anang mga serial killer sa america nga grabeg pagtuo ni Jesus pero mga criminal? daghan ayo Christiano sa pag tuo pero salawayon sa katilingban. unsaon man na nimo nga mura man effortless ang pagbuhat ug maayo kuno kung naa naka faith?

Kabalo ba ka nga si Martin Luther naninguha pag wala sa James nga Libro sa bible? kay mo sukwahi man sa iya sola Gracia nga theory.

Although there are a lot of false religions that uses these to their advantage.

Again Being saved does not give us an excuse to sin.

Punishment is even worse for a person who backslides to sin. So it is a christians worst situation.
For the Amalekites and the Canaanites are there before you, and ye shall fall by the sword: because ye are turned away from the LORD, therefore the LORD will not be with you.
Numbers 14:43

And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
Luke 9:62

Wherefore a lion out of the forest shall slay them, and a wolf of the evenings shall spoil them, a leopard shall watch over their cities: every one that goeth out thence shall be torn in pieces: because their transgressions are many, and their backslidings are increased.
Jeremiah 5:6

[Kenshiro]

And if the answer to the most profound questions in life-

origin-meaning-morality-destiny

will lead you to the cross of Christ then,

it'll drive you to stop questioning and start believing what it truly means!

we have questions and have found the answer.

[ketllac]

Although there are a lot of false religions that uses these to their advantage.

Again Being saved does not give us an excuse to sin.

Punishment is even worse for a person who backslides to sin. So it is a christians worst situation.
For the Amalekites and the Canaanites are there before you, and ye shall fall by the sword: because ye are turned away from the LORD, therefore the LORD will not be with you.
Numbers 14:43

And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
Luke 9:62

Wherefore a lion out of the forest shall slay them, and a wolf of the evenings shall spoil them, a leopard shall watch over their cities: every one that goeth out thence shall be torn in pieces: because their transgressions are many, and their backslidings are increased.
Jeremiah 5:6

Kenshiro if works are unnecessary for salvation as many Protestants believe, then why is a man saved through fire by a judgment of his works?

let us consult the bible;

Matt. 16:27 – Jesus says He will repay every man for what he has done (works)

Matt. 25:31-46 - Jesus' teaching on the separation of the sheep from the goats is based on the works that were done during their lives, not just on their acceptance of Christ as Savior. In fact, this teaching even demonstrates that those who are ultimately saved do not necessarily have to know Christ. Also, we don’t accept Christ; He accepts us. God first makes the decision to accept us before we could ever accept Him.

Matt. 25:40,45 - Jesus says "Whatever you did to the least of my brothers, you did it to Me." We are judged and our eternal destiny is determined in accordance with our works.

Mark 10:21 - Jesus says sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. This means that our salvation depends upon our works.

1 Tim. 6:18-19 – the rich are to be rich in good deeds so that they may take hold of the life which is life indeed, that is, eternal life.

Rev. 2:26 - Jesus says he who conquers and keeps my works until the end will be rewarded in heaven. Jesus thus instructs us to keep his works to the very end. This is not necessary if we are "once saved, always saved."

Rev. 14:13 - we are judged by the Lord by our works – “for their deeds follow them!” Our faith during our life is completed and judged by our works.

Rev. 20:12 – “the dead are judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done.”

Heb. 7:27, 9:12,26;10:10; 1 Pet 3:18 - Jesus died once and redeemed us all, but we participate in the application of His redemption by the way in which we live.

1 Peter 1:17 - God judges us impartially according to our deeds. We participate in applying the grace Jesus won for us at Calvary in our daily lives.

Rev. 22:12 – Jesus says, “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay everyone for what he has done.”

kini nag pasabot nga imong faith taphaw kung walay buhat nga maayo. Ma justify lang na imo faith nga tinuod kung suplayan nimo maayong buhat.

Pareha ra na sa panultihon nga " sige lang ka istorya wala man nakit - an sa buhat"

nag pasabot nga walay distinction between faith and deeds. ug nagpasabot sad ni ang kinabuhing kristyano dili sa sige lang ug sulti ug profession sa faith diha sa kadaghan kundi sa pagpuyo sa imong kinabuhi nga kristyano. Kanang pag puyoa involeves maayong binuhatan sa imong isig katawo.

[tuffie09]

And if the answer to the most profound questions in life-

origin-meaning-morality-destiny

will lead you to the cross of Christ then,

it'll drive you to stop questioning and start believing what it truly means!

Tawn sad oi

[tuffie09]

Your bible tells us that "YOU WILL GO HELL" if wala ka ka dunggong sa balita about *salvation kuno* Jesus christ. Now my question is, why bother telling us about jesus christ? Want us to go to hell?

Care to check?

Yaw namo panabi anang jesus oi maimperno ang wala kabalo!

[malic_2]

Goodworks are the results of being saved.
Not, being saved as the result of Goodworks.

Because no can be saved by his own good works. Its only through accepting Christ that we can be saved. Good works will come naturally.
If you do Good works on your own well that is good but it doesn't save you.
Look at extremists terrorist they think they are doing the "right" thing who plots cowardly acts against innocent people.
You can never understand the gift of Grace if you put self righteousness above grace like the extremist terrorist.

For Christianity they follow these principles. (note if this is true Christianity not false Christianity)
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God.
Mathew 5:9
"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.
Matthew 26:52

For vengeance of injustice and wickedness is not ours:
For with fire and with his sword the LORD will execute judgment upon all men, and many will be those slain by the LORD.
Isaiah 66:16

We proclaim the message of the all powerful creator.
"I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, 'Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.'" (Revelation 14:6,7 KJV)

"There followed another angel, saying, 'Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.'" (Revelation 14:8 KJV)

"The third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, 'If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment will ascend for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.'" (Revelation 14:9-12 KJV)

you didn't really answer my question.
are you sure about this? are you sure that this is how the 1st century Christians understood Salvation? or is this another Calvinistic theological manipulation? to me it is.

James 2:24- You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

by the way don't quote verses that is not within the range of our discussion. its a violation,you Christians don't follow rules?