Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?

[yanong_banikanhon]

James is not saying that our works make us righteous before God...

Mao ba? Unsa diay ning gisulti ni James diri?

James 2:24
You see that a person is considered righteous by what they DO and not by faith alone.

Ato na lang kaha ning ipatanggal ning bersikoloha sa bible, sa?

Kani pud, ato pud na lang ning ipa-erase:

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.

Matthew 12:36-37
I tell you, on the day of judgment you will have to give an account for every careless word you utter; For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.

Di ba dapat 'for by your faith ALONE you will be justified' unta ang nakasulat ana? Si Kristo ra ba gyud ang nisulti ana. Pero sige lang, ato na lang ng ipatangtang sa bible.

[silentnuker]

Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."

Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"

Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"

Rom. 9:30, "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith."

Rom. 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."

Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."

Gal. 2:21, I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.

Gal. 3:5-6, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."

Gal. 3:24, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."

Eph. 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. 9Not by works, lest any man should boast."

Phil. 3:9, "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."


Ma0 ni nga mga verses would tell about justification by faith.

Kaning sa James 2....basah0n cgur0 nat0 sa c0ntext brad...hehehe...para malamdagan jud ta.



James 2:14-26 (NIV)


Faith and Deeds

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.


There is no contradiction. All you need to do is look at the context. James chapter 2 has 26 verses: Verses 1-7 instruct us not to show favoritism. Verses 8-13 are comments on the Law. Verses 14-26 are about the relationship between faith and works.

James begins this section by using the example of someone who says he has faith but has no works, "What use is it, my brethren, if a man says he has faith, but he has no works? Can that faith save him?" (James 2:14). In other words, James is addressing the issue of a dead faith, a faith that is nothing more than a verbal pronouncement, a public confession of the mind, and is not heart-felt. It is empty of life and action. He begins with the negative and demonstrates what an empty faith is (verses 15-17, words without actions). Then he shows that type of faith isn't any different from the faith of demons (verse 19). Finally, he gives examples of living faith that has words followed by actions. Works follow true faith and demonstrate that faith to our fellow man, but not to God. James writes of Abraham and Rahab as examples of people who demonstrated their faith by their deeds.

In brief, James is examining two kinds of faith: one that leads to godly works and one that does not. One is true, and the other is false. One is dead, the other alive; hence, "Faith without works is dead," (James 2:20). But, he is not contradicting the verses above that say salvation/justification is by faith alone.

Also, notice that James actually quotes the same verse that Paul quotes in Rom. 4:3 amongst a host of verses dealing with justification by faith. James 2:23 says, "and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, and Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.'" If James was trying to teach a contradictory doctrine of faith and works than the other New Testament writers, then he would not have used Abraham as an example. Therefore, we can see that justification is by faith alone and that James was talking about false faith, not real faith when he said we are not justified by faith alone.

[<SMILE>]

When a man would recount to GOD,
I'm a rapist, a murderer, and committed very grave crimes, but I have faith in you.
What do you think how GOD would respond.

[yanong_banikanhon]

But, he is not contradicting the verses above that say salvation/justification is by faith alone.[/B]

Kana lagi kun ikaw ug ang imong pastor ang pasultihon. Ka-klaro anang bersikoloha nga gisaway ni James kanang doctrina nga 'faith ALONE'. Nia ay:

James 2:24
You see that a person is considered righteous by what they DO and NOT by faith alone.

Kita ka anang word nga 'NOT' nga gitapad sa 'by faith ALONE'? Kun dili pa na contradicting, unsa na kaha ang definition sa 'contradiction', sa?

Busa gani gitawag ni Martin Luther (ang amahan sa pagtoong protestante) nga 'epistle of straw' ang mga sulat ni James tungod anang bersikoloha. Kay dili man gud niya madawat nga gi-contradict niini ang doctrina nga 'sola fide' kun 'faith ALONE'.

Unya unsa man sad imong masulti sa giingon ni Christ sa Matthew 16:27 nga 'For the Son of Man is going to come...and will reward each person according to what he has done.'

Kun faith ALONE lang gyud, di ba dapat 'will reward each person according to his faith ALONE' ang isulti ni Jesus? Basin 'verse of straw' na pud ning gisulti ni Jesus.

[colds]

faith along cannot save you

[chardeelove]

When a man would recount to GOD,
I'm a rapist, a murderer, and committed very grave crimes, but I have faith in you.
What do you think how GOD would respond.

depende sabot.. hhmmpp

[noy]

When a man would recount to GOD,
I'm a rapist, a murderer, and committed very grave crimes, but I have faith in you.
What do you think how GOD would respond.

or a person who does not believe in Jesus, say a muslim or a buddhist but is almost Christ-like in acts of charities..
and does every good work out of pure intentions.
would God condemn this person because he lacks the Faith in Jesus?

surely as a Christian, we believe that only through Jesus by His death on the cross that a soul shall be saved..
but this doesn't necessarily mean that only those who profess their Faith in Him will be saved..

[chardeelove]

Nganu mahagbong man ka sa Pagtuo nga Ang buhat may imung nahagbongan?

True Faith --> Good Works, Dili Good Works --> True Faith. Daku kaayu ug Deperensya. Ug di na mao ako logic.

Ngano kahibaw man ka na hagbong ko sa akong buhat? , Ang Roma 3:23 nag sulti ba sa nga hagbong ang nag buhat og maayo?? wala..

ug kinsa man pud ga ingon nimo nga good works -- > true faith?? atong klarohon huh.. hehe faith + good works =salvation! good works + faith = salvation..

supak ka or uyon sa faith ug salvation equals kaluwasan?

Mao bitaw nay POINT sa word nga Manifestation

ikaw ra ga supak sa imong kaugalingon pagtoo nga faith alone! ngano kinhanglan pa man e manifest ang pagtoo ngadto sa maayong binuhatan kung faith alone lang,.. ang maayong binuhatan dili kasagaran manifestation sa pagtoo! dili na universal knowledge! unsa man tong mga atheist nga nag buhat og maayong binuhatan? manifesation diay to sa faith?

True Faith diay nang Wa nisunod sa Sugo?

adunay mga atheist nga nag sunod sa sugo sa diyos . sama sa dili ka mag patay, dili ka mangabit ugbp karon naa diay silay true faith?

Sakto bitaw na, PERO padayunan sad ang Verse, daghan paman kaayu na.. If atung padayunon atung makita nga BY Faith, those people like abraham and Noah Nagbuhat ug Maayu. By Faith ni Resutla ug maayung buhat. So akong belief nha Good works are manifestation of True Faith is Not in conflict with that.

Ang Pagtuo nga Walay Kuyog nga kahibalo dili na tinuod nga pagtuo..

o sakto man diay so ngano mag himo man kg laing definition sa faith?? nya kung faith alone ngano kinahanglan pa man mo resulta og maayong buhat? dili na faith alone? kay ang meaning sa alone, wala nay lain pa.. pero thank you gihapon nga ni angkon ka dapat mo resulta og maayong buhat! kana lang daan nag supak na sa faith alone. hehehe

asa ni mabasa sa bible "ang pagtoo nga walay kahibalo dili tinuod nga pagtoo"?
usbon ko akong pangutana:
kung ang tawo mo tawag or mo sangpit og diyos ,unsa ni true or false faith??
uyon ka ba nga ang tawo mo sangpit og diyos adunay pagtoo?

Atung I post ang Kinatibuk an sa James 2:18-25:

sa letter of james , klaro kaayo sa james 2:24 ngano ang faith alone walay kaluwasan! basa! See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone... si james ni sulti ana! kung mo supak ka! dili ka biblical! karon kay dili man ka justify ang faith alone, unsa pa may gikinahanglan para ma justify ta or maluwas ta?
"So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead". unya kung faith alone lang ang maka luwas ngano sa bible we are judge by our deeds? For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.2cor5:10




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HUH? kasabot ka unsay Manifestation?

Ang True Faith MAGBUNGA, Mag Yield, Maka Produce ug maayung buhat... mao ra na akong gi ingun. Ayaw pag formulate ug Opposite idea based sa akong gi ingun ka Butang butang na

When i Say A will Prodeuce B, it Does not automatically mean B will also produce A because its not mention in the Equation.

Ikaw maoy invalid kay wa ka kasabot sa logic... wa ka kasabot sa Flow sa Equation...

manifestation = an event, action, or object that clearly shows or embodies something, especially a theory or an abstract idea

Ako nag formulate?? asa dapita?? ikaw nag formulate og idea nga wala sa bible

kung ang good works manifestation sa faith! unsa man ton mga atheist nga nag buhat og mayonng binuhatan? manifestation pud to sa faith? hehehe

[percent01]

naa juy ni quote sa akoa gpabalik jd ko tan.aw ari.
cge...

The works James requires are not done apart from faith but done in faith, not done instead of faith but done because of faith. Faith is the underlying stance of Christian life; deeds are the way of life; becoming mature and complete is the goal of Christian life. James cannot be charged with opposing deeds to faith, since he does not say, "I will show you deeds instead of faith." Rather, he contends for a showing of both faith and deeds: I will show you my faith by what I do. He does not object to faith; he objects only to faith not accompanied by action. Simply stated, he wants Christians to have faith that works.

The two rhetorical questions about faith without deeds are (1) "What good is it?" (answer: none) and (2) "Can it save?" (answer: no). The first question implies a general lack of any usefulness for a faith without actions. The second question specifies a particular use that is lacking--salvation itself. The combined impact is to declare a thorough uselessness of faith without deeds and, to make it absolutely clear, also to declare its particular uselessness in regard to salvation, which would be the primary point of having faith in the first place.

[slabdans]

mo up lang ko kay wala koy lingaw