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All About Current Admin of Duterte


This discussion is about "All About Current Admin of Duterte" in the "Politics & Current Events" forums.
Originally Posted by hitch22 Well, as a believer in free speech, I'd rather have the marketplace of ideas determine the fate of ABS CBN than ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by hitch22 View Post
    Well, as a believer in free speech, I'd rather have the marketplace of ideas determine the fate of ABS CBN than a government body.
    Who is this "the marketplace of ideas" of yours?

    I really want to know because this "person" is the one whom you think should determine the fate of ABS CBN.



    For me, free speech should not have any limits...BUT this is only recommended for highly mature, highly intelligent societies.
    Just like any law or Right, it has to have limits, even the US or Canada puts a limit to any law or Right where we base our Constitution and Laws put limits to every law.

    I couldn't put it in any better words and thereby quote it from the comments of the US Constitution:

    "
    The First Amendment allows us to speak our mind and stand up for what we believe in. However, the limits on free speech are rooted in the principle that we're not allowed to harm others to get what we want. That's why we're not allowed to use to speech for force, fraud, or defamation. "

    https://www.policyed.org/intellectio...r%20defamation.

    I'd like to know where this "highly mature, highly intelligent societies" you are saying though.


    My whole point is about the climate of fanaticism, which I think should be tamed in order to allow healthy critical thinking.

    In North Korea, the leader is treated like a god. Myths and legends are created to exalt the status of their dear leader. There is excessive praise and demonstrations of loyalty towards their dear leader. No one dares criticize the leader. I'm not saying we're there. I just hope we don't end up like that.
    For one, I don't see any "excessive praise and demonstrations of loyalty towards" Duterte though. What I can see from CNN, ABSCBN, Inquirer, Philippine Star, Rappler, even pro admin News outlet and even from Senators like Lacson, De Lima, Hontiveros, Kiko Pangilinan, Drilon, etc., are all criticizing the President or this administrations action. With this, I don't see where the excessive praise and loyalty demonstrations you are saying.

    In fact, if you search in Google the word "Duterte", I'm betting the first 10 results are criticisms against Duterte and not what excessive praise and demonstrations.

    And I'm also betting, out of 100 demonstrations or rallies in the streets, majority if not 90% of these demonstrations are anti Duterte.
    Free Speech couldn't be more freer than that. Some of these demonstrations are even violent, to the point that they are vandalizing our government properties, and even private properties. In some other countries, doing those could land you in jail. Check Singapore for example. Some of our laws are even violated with those rallies, and this President is so lenient on these that he neither lay a finger on them demonstrators.

    If you ask me, Free Speech in this country is excessive to the point of being derogatory to private citizens and to people in authority.
    If you have seen rallies or demonstrations in Japan and South Korea you would know what I mean, even demonstrations in Hong Kong if not for some violent protesters, are relatively peaceful compared to our rallies or demonstrations in this country.



    The point about "promised land". Every election, candidates promise a "brighter future" and masses believe in it. It seems as though if the right leader comes along, he sees himself getting richer. I think you're smart enough to know that waiting for the right one to come along is not a good strategy in life.

    I think Duterte is a great leader, but what we hope he accomplishes is different. All I wish from Duterte is to put the Philippines in the top 20 of the Index of Economic Freedom ranking and encourage more large foreign investors to set up shop here. And one more thing: what happened to the promise of Federalism? Is this still on the agenda?
    Compared to previous leaders, I think this one is a stand out. The others were lackluster. If you happen to go fishing, you will be surprised to know that you can't catch all the fishes in the Ocean.

    Federalism is one of those elusive ones.

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    wa ny ayo dtete! DILI ka protecta sa atong soverenya! ihatag na lang jud diay niya ang spratly island sa intsik! TRAYDOR!

    wa malooy sa atong ultimong mangingisda dha sa palawan na mao ra jud source nila ang spratly banggaan pa ug dagkong chinese vessel kasab-an pa niya ang mga mangingisda nato paboran ang tsikwa na nakabangga?! pagka amaw niyaaaa.

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    though ksabot ko sa realistic nga punto ni duterte towards sa china nga wla gyud tay bawt ug mgka.gyera ta against them, i just hoped he stood firm nga protektaran ang sovereignty sa pinas just like how other countries approach it. pero murag talaw mn c manoy. and yet he seems complacent mn towards china sab. we can't just dismiss pro-LP's sentiments ani nga butang kay naa mn say kamatuoran ilang gi.raise nga concerns. i hope people would get past the mindset of needing to take either sides (both of which has their own flaws sab) and instead be more objective and rational sa ilang decisions.

    pero i think it would be unfair to put all the blame kang duterte ky katong panahon ni pnoy wa sd toy ayo ang pgdala. just like what's happening sa philhealth nga fiasco nga pila na diay to ka tuig ang pagpangurakot.
    Last edited by gibra'al; 08-12-2020 at 10:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firestarter View Post
    Who is this "the marketplace of ideas" of yours? I really want to know because this "person" is the one whom you think should determine the fate of ABS CBN.
    Marketplace of ideas is not a who? Marketplace of ideas is the platform where ideas are allowed to compete and the market (i.e. the people) gets to choose which ideas to accept and reject. In the case of the fate of ABS CBN, if in the final reckoning the public decides to tune them out, then they'll lose viewership and run out of business.

    Quote Originally Posted by firestarter View Post
    Just like any law or Right, it has to have limits, even the US or Canada puts a limit to any law or Right where we base our Constitution and Laws put limits to every law.

    I couldn't put it in any better words and thereby quote it from the COMMENTS of the US Constitution:

    "The First Amendment allows us to speak our mind and stand up for what we believe in. However, the limits on free speech are rooted in the principle that we're not allowed to harm others to get what we want. That's why we're not allowed to use to speech for force, fraud, or defamation. "

    I'd like to know where this "highly mature, highly intelligent societies" you are saying though.
    First, I'd like to point out that that's not what the First Amendment says. You're just quoting a comment on the First Amendment. Here's what the First Amendment really states:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
    People introduce the concept of "harm" to put limits around that freedom, where "harm" can be interpreted in so many different ways that free speech no longer has any meaning. The "harm" of defamation, for example, is so overrated. Think how Erap was vilified when he got ousted two years into his presidency, only to find himself still popular with the masses. You can name many other politicians who've been alleged to have been involved in corruption and is still winning elections. Where's this so-called defamation? Truth is people have short-term memories and they usually move on with their lives. Only people with overblown self-importance are paranoid about what people think of them.

    Where are these "highly mature, highly intelligent societies"? Well, take a look at the index on press freedom and see which countries are tops on the list.

    Quote Originally Posted by firestarter View Post
    For one, I don't see any "excessive praise and demonstrations of loyalty towards" Duterte though. What I can see from CNN, ABSCBN, Inquirer, Philippine Star, Rappler, even pro admin News outlet and even from Senators like Lacson, De Lima, Hontiveros, Kiko Pangilinan, Drilon, etc., are all criticizing the President or this administrations action. With this, I don't see where the excessive praise and loyalty demonstrations you are saying.

    In fact, if you search in Google the word "Duterte", I'm betting the first 10 results are criticisms against Duterte and not what excessive praise and demonstrations.

    And I'm also betting, out of 100 demonstrations or rallies in the streets, majority if not 90% of these demonstrations are anti Duterte.
    Free Speech couldn't be more freer than that. Some of these demonstrations are even violent, to the point that they are vandalizing our government properties, and even private properties. In some other countries, doing those could land you in jail. Check Singapore for example. Some of our laws are even violated with those rallies, and this President is so lenient on these that he neither lay a finger on them demonstrators.

    If you ask me, Free Speech in this country is excessive to the point of being derogatory to private citizens and to people in authority.
    To chime in on that last sentence: In our country, people kill each other merely for exchanging unpleasant words. And that is why I said that free speech is only recommended for highly mature, intelligent societies.

    Relax. I'm not saying Duterte is the same as Kim Jong Un. I'm just noticing a great degree of fanaticism in cyberspace and this is not good for intelligent discussion. I agree with most of what you've said. Political rallies usually have dubious origins, especially in the Philippines. There are people who've made a business/profession out of protesting and this is symptomatic of a less mature society. In the case of Hong Kong, they are indeed facing existential threat from the CCP. Big difference. They're not protesting for nothing.


    Quote Originally Posted by firestarter View Post
    Compared to previous leaders, I think this one is a stand out. The others were lackluster. If you happen to go fishing, you will be surprised to know that you can't catch all the fishes in the Ocean.

    Federalism is one of those elusive ones.
    But the elusive one (Federalism) will reverberate throughout our history. People will remember this turning point.

    Every leader wants to be known for "achievements" and then they kick the debt problem to future administrations who will have their hands tied because debt-servicing will have eaten up the budget. Guess where the pogi points go to? And can you blame that future president for not being able to achieve much?

    How's the future going to look like in your crystal ball, my friend? I certainly need a good dose of optimism right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hitch22 View Post
    Marketplace of ideas is not a who? Marketplace of ideas is the platform where ideas are allowed to compete and the market (i.e. the people) gets to choose which ideas to accept and reject. In the case of the fate of ABS CBN, if in the final reckoning the public decides to tune them out, then they'll lose viewership and run out of business.

    So the idea is to leave ABS CBN's franchise renewal and approval of said "franchise law" to their viewership?
    Because if we were to follow this logic, as long as they have viewers their franchise should be renewed and no other law should limit ABSCBN's right over said frequencies.


    So hypothetically, even when ABSCBN committed unlawful acts against other entities or other people and/ or didn't follow the requirements or violated stated requirements in their franchise where they agreed to in the first place, we the " entire public" still have to leave their franchise renewal to their viewership, as long as they have viewers and as long as they are making money? Making-money, because they won't be operating the business if they were losing money in the first place.


    Really, if we were to follow this kind interpretation of "marketplace of ideas", ABSCBN should air in Youtube, or over the internet and stay away from the strict requirements of the government's free-to-air limited frequencies. Doing away with their current "ABSCBN franchise".


    Please also, consider when I say "ABSCBN franchise", this is/was a law promulgated by Congress, drafted in the Lower House, and approved by the executive. Just like any law, you still have to follow such procedures, because a "franchise" is a law. And we only have these branches ( Congress, Executive and Judiciary), to promulgate, approve, and interpret such laws. lest, you have a people's revolution or a military government, where this power to create laws are bestowed upon the people or military.


    If they want to by-pass or do away with Congress, and Executive strict requirements ,they can always go to Youtube, Netflix, Amazon Prime, Facebook Watch, and other providers over the internet where they won't need government resources "limited frequencies" to operate.


    First, I'd like to point out that that's not what the First Amendment says. You're just quoting a comment on the First Amendment. Here's what the First Amendment really states:


    That's actually what I said, comments of the First Amendment. Such, comments at least gives the idea why we need "limits" to every law. Contrary to what others are saying that Freedom of Speech should be unlimited.


    People introduce the concept of "harm" to put limits around that freedom, where "harm" can be interpreted in so many different ways that free speech no longer has any meaning. The "harm" of defamation, for example, is so overrated. Think how Erap was vilified when he got ousted two years into his presidency, only to find himself still popular with the masses. You can name many other politicians who've been alleged to have been involved in corruption and is still winning elections. Where's this so-called defamation? Truth is people have short-term memories and they usually move on with their lives. Only people with overblown self-importance are paranoid about what people think of them.

    The law maybe harsh, but it is still the law.


    Where are these "highly mature, highly intelligent societies"? Well, take a look at the index on press freedom and see which countries are tops on the list.

    You didn't give me a link to such index, so I googled the keywords "freedom of speech index" and came to here:


    https://rsf.org/en/ranking#


    It seems Norway is at the top of the index. A quick glance at their freedom of speech on limitations.


    Norway’s History of Free Speech


    When Scandinavian countries were founded, it was understood that free speech was absolutely fundamental to a healthy society. When Norway was under Danish rule in 1770, censorship was abolished. Once an independent country in May 1814, Norway drafted the Norwegian Constitution with the same attitude toward censorship as Denmark. Article 100 states, “Everyone shall be free to speak his mind frankly on the administration of the State and on any other subject whatsoever.” (Norwegian Constitution, Article 100) Limitations to expression included defamation, hate speech, and deliberate contempt of religion. Nearly 100 years later in 1902, Article 100’s limitations were elaborated on;.

    Hate Speech is also another limitations imposed on Norway's Freedom of Speech, here:
    https://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news...f-hate-speech/


    Norway also has a defamation law:
    https://kellywarnerlaw.com/norway-de...20be%20imposed.




    But suffice it to say, even the Norway the country at the Top (#1) in the Freedom of Speech index has limitations to Freedom of Speech.


    To chime in on that last sentence: In our country, people kill each other merely for exchanging unpleasant words. And that is why I said that free speech is only recommended for highly mature, intelligent societies.

    People kill other people for a lot more reasons.




    Relax. I'm not saying Duterte is the same as Kim Jong Un. I'm just noticing a great degree of fanaticism in cyberspace and this is not good for intelligent discussion. I agree with most of what you've said. Political rallies usually have dubious origins, especially in the Philippines. There are people who've made a business/profession out of protesting and this is symptomatic of a less mature society. In the case of Hong Kong, they are indeed facing existential threat from the CCP. Big difference. They're not protesting for nothing.

    Well, you brought it up in your previous post regarding North Korea and Dictatorship, so.








    But the elusive one (Federalism) will reverberate throughout our history. People will remember this turning point.


    Every leader wants to be known for "achievements" and then they kick the debt problem to future administrations who will have their hands tied because debt-servicing will have eaten up the budget. Guess where the pogi points go to? And can you blame that future president for not being able to achieve much?


    How's the future going to look like in your crystal ball, my friend? I certainly need a good dose of optimism right now.


    I would have hoped that Federalism pushed through with this administration, I don't see it becoming a reality in this administration though. Gloria tried it and didn't materialize. Probably a Presidential candidate with no other agenda other than a Federal State is given a chance at the helms of the government, then maybe. But with the current state of our government. I don't think so.


    Debt problem, is another propaganda I've heard being brought about by the opposition, even the US is having trouble with such, and this pandemic has worsened it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gibra'al View Post
    though ksabot ko sa realistic nga punto ni duterte towards sa china nga wla gyud tay bawt ug mgka.gyera ta against them, i just hoped he stood firm nga protektaran ang sovereignty sa pinas just like how other countries approach it. pero murag talaw mn c manoy. and yet he seems complacent mn towards china sab. we can't just dismiss pro-LP's sentiments ani nga butang kay naa mn say kamatuoran ilang gi.raise nga concerns. i hope people would get past the mindset of needing to take either sides (both of which has their own flaws sab) and instead be more objective and rational sa ilang decisions.

    pero i think it would be unfair to put all the blame kang duterte ky katong panahon ni pnoy wa sd toy ayo ang pgdala. just like what's happening sa philhealth nga fiasco nga pila na diay to ka tuig ang pagpangurakot.
    The only real hope of curtailing China's expansionism in the West Philippines Sea or SCS whichever the case maybe, to my mind, is with the intervention of the United States.

    If you have studied the history of battles, that led to the 2nd world war. It involved, countries invading other countries. Like Germany and USSR invading Poland, while other countries stand watch and the US never a lifting a finger against it. It was slaughter of course.

    It was only until Germany Invaded and the slaughter of thousands of French people when the US and Britain intervened.

    If I were the Philippine President I wouldn't want to be the next Poland. Duterte tried to ask help from the US when he was elected early on. But was never given concrete reasons to be all out against China.

    If you were the President who is no superpower, no nuclear weapons, no proper navy, a handful of aging military assets, and a pitiful military budget, the only way I could handle such a looming conflict would be to defuse it.

    China is flexing it's arms and is starting to show the world how powerful it is. I wouldn't wanna be the country being the first example of a show of force.

    The former Justice Carpio, suggested something of ganging up against China, I believe he mentioned Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, not sure. But would you as a President wanted to risk war against China with nothing to show for it?

    I do believe Duterte made it clear enough that he doesn't want to do anything with being a wartime president. Better eliminate enemies by making friends of them. I think that is what Abraham Lincoln said.

    People could go on and on about this against China, but I would have to say this President is making the right decision against China. There might be better more sensible decisions towards sovereignty, but his concern decision towards China, might me the least bloody one.

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    point taken sir. i can see duterte's approach man nga he's trying to defuse and/or avoid conflict against china ky mao man say pinaka realistic nga approach sab to protect our welfare. hinaot lng he would reach out kang xi about conflict of interests and discuss terms with him just to set boundaries btaw while 'apparently' maintaining close ties with them.
    hombre likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firestarter View Post
    So the idea is to leave ABS CBN's franchise renewal and approval of said "franchise law" to their viewership? Because if we were to follow this logic, as long as they have viewers their franchise should be renewed and no other law should limit ABSCBN's right over said frequencies.

    So hypothetically, even when ABSCBN committed unlawful acts against other entities or other people and/ or didn't follow the requirements or violated stated requirements in their franchise where they agreed to in the first place, we the " entire public" still have to leave their franchise renewal to their viewership, as long as they have viewers and as long as they are making money? Making-money, because they won't be operating the business if they were losing money in the first place.
    If ABS CBN violated our laws, then they should be held to account in a court of law and get due process. As to their franchise, well, it's just ABS CBN's misfortune that that's how the granting of franchises in the Philippines works; you don't mess with the powers that be.

    Quote Originally Posted by firestarter View Post
    Really, if we were to follow this kind interpretation of "marketplace of ideas", ABSCBN should air in Youtube, or over the internet and stay away from the strict requirements of the government's free-to-air limited frequencies. Doing away with their current "ABSCBN franchise".
    Well, ABS CBN operated for several decades. It would seem strange that they suddenly forgot about certain "strict requirements". But, in any case, case is over. Let's move on.

    Quote Originally Posted by firestarter View Post
    If they want to by-pass or do away with Congress, and Executive strict requirements ,they can always go to Youtube, Netflix, Amazon Prime, Facebook Watch, and other providers over the internet where they won't need government resources "limited frequencies" to operate.
    Limited frequencies? Are the airwaves full? How many TV stations are we talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by firestarter View Post
    The law maybe harsh, but it is still the law.
    The Constitution was created not to curtail people's rights but to limit government's power.

    Quote Originally Posted by firestarter View Post
    You didn't give me a link to such index, so I googled the keywords "freedom of speech index" and came to here:https://rsf.org/en/ranking#

    It seems Norway is at the top of the index. A quick glance at their freedom of speech on limitations.

    Hate Speech is also another limitations imposed on Norway's Freedom of Speech, here:
    https://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news...f-hate-speech/

    Norway also has a defamation law:
    https://kellywarnerlaw.com/norway-de...20be%20imposed.

    But suffice it to say, even the Norway the country at the Top (#1) in the Freedom of Speech index has limitations to Freedom of Speech.
    Sorry. I meant the Free Expression Index which shows the US as most supportive of free expression.

    The US takes its First Amendment very seriously; rhetorically why the founding fathers made the free speech article First. Even with the defamation/libel laws inherited from old English legal system, you will find that these are not as plaintiff-friendly as you think "due to the enforcement of the First Amendment". Read US Defamation Law.

    In the United States, a comprehensive discussion of what is and is not libel or slander is difficult, because the definition differs between different states....

    ...In the various states, whether by case law or legislation, there are generally several "privileges" that can get a defamation case dismissed without proceeding to trial. These include the litigation privilege, which makes statements made in the context of litigation non-actionable, and the allegedly defamatory statement being "fair comment and criticism", as it is important to society that everyone be able to comment on matters of public interest...

    ...On the federal level, there are no criminal defamation or insult laws in the United States.
    Remember what I said. Free speech is only recommended for highly intelligent and mature societies. I didn't say highly intelligent and mature societies have them. These societies can choose not to have them. It's also possible for less intelligent, less mature societies to have them, and it's creating a lot of conflicts in their countries. Freedom isn't the norm throughout civilization, because a lot of people tend to think they can trade freedom for security and they usually end up getting neither. In the end, I think there are people who like independence and take responsibility for their actions and there are people who prefer the government take care of them. The former looks riskier, of course...well-suited for the brave.

    Quote Originally Posted by firestarter View Post
    Well, you brought it up in your previous post regarding North Korea and Dictatorship, so.
    Well, I stated that I HOPE we don't end up like North Korea. Why do you keep bringing this up?

    Quote Originally Posted by firestarter View Post
    Debt problem, is another propaganda I've heard being brought about by the opposition, even the US is having trouble with such, and this pandemic has worsened it.
    The last time our government entertained thoughts of dealing with the debt problem, PGMA's time, they passed 8 tax laws.

    I requested from you an optimistic forecast (and I hope you can indulge me), because I see a bleak future. I see the Philippines headed further down the Socialism path full speed, the size of our government getting bigger and bigger, more and more leftist policies, and attitudes towards private enterprise less friendly and over-regulated. In the words of the great Lee Kuan Yew "You make profit a dirty word and Singapore dies." Whether you like it or not, we've made the word "profit" a dirty word. Ten years down the road...watch how we barrel down the path of Venezuela with proud social justice bravado, only to learn the painful lesson that we can't legislate our way out of poverty...because in economics, there's no such thing as a "free lunch". There is no substitute for hard work, smart choices...a little bit of luck.
    Last edited by hitch22; 08-25-2020 at 11:26 AM.

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    https://www.facebook.com/inquirerdot...0219843034453/


    I'll just leave this here

    Dut3rt3 B3sT Pr3s1d3nT!!!!!

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    Rabid supporters of Duterte, where you at?

    How's your "president"?

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