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Porgatory


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  1. #41
    C.I.A. rics zalved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yhokz101 View Post
    so ang nangamatay sa unang panahon.. asa man karon mmag huwat pa sa waiting room? huwat sa judgement day bro?
    Before bay sa Old Testament days or even before si Jesus gilansang sa cross, ang mga kalag gibutang pa sa usa ka lugar nga gitawag pa ug Sheol or Hades, pero dili ni purgatory ha, gidescribe ni siya sa Parable of Rich Man and Lazarus sa Luke 16:19-31

    by the way, Sheol pa ni tawag nila sa Hebrew language, (ang Hades kay Greek word na siya)

    Genesis 37:35
    English Standard Version (ESV)

    35 All his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted and said, “No, I shall go down to Sheol to my son, mourning.” Thus his father wept for him.

    Job 14:13
    English Standard Version (ESV)

    13 Oh that you would hide me in Sheol,
    that you would conceal me until your wrath be past,
    that you would appoint me a set time, and remember me!

    Psalm 6:5
    English Standard Version (ESV)

    5 For in death there is no remembrance of you;
    in Sheol who will give you praise?
    sa Hades naay duha ka compartment didto para saved (gitawag pud ug Abraham's side) ug mga unsaved, pero diha pa lang daan nakatilaw na ang mga unsaved ug kahasol na unya sa pikas compartment, sa mga saved kay ok ra didto,

    Luke 16:19-31
    English Standard Version (ESV)

    The Rich Man and Lazarus

    19 “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side.[a] The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’ 27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house— 28 for I have five brothers[b]—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”
    kadtong nabanhaw na si Jesus, kadtong naa sa Abraham's side gidala na niya sa Paradise sila (though debatable kung mao na ba jud ni ang heaven or another place), confimed ni kadtong nagstorya si Jesus sa criminal

    Luke 23:42-43
    English Standard Version (ESV)

    42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” 43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”
    then ang nabilin na lang sa Hades kadtong mga unsaved na lang

    ang mga kalag as of that moment until today kay kung saved ka adto ka sa Paradise, then kung dili ka saved adto sa Hades

    inig Second Coming ni Jesus Christ, kadtong naa sa paradise kay banhawon sila with immortal bodies kay imeet ni Jesus Christ para tagaan sila sa reward,and one of those though not sure kay kauban magrule ni Jesus Christ sa earth for 1000 years.

    though ang mga living aning panahona debatable pa kung immortal na ba sila dayon or kinahanglan pa nila mamatay para magkaimmortal.

    Revelation 20:6
    English Standard Version (ESV)

    6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.
    1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
    English Standard Version (ESV)

    16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.
    1 Corinthians 15:52-53
    English Standard Version (ESV)

    52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.
    after the Millenial Kingdom, kadtong mga saved sa Paradise ug mga unsaved sa Hades kay ijudge na, so mao ni ang judgment day na jud ang mga saved padulong sa New Heaven and New Earth, then kadtong naa sa Hades kay padulong sa lake of fire, which is mao na ni ang hell

    Revelation 20:12-14
    English Standard Version (ESV)

    12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
    Revelation 21:1-4
    New International Version (NIV)

    A New Heaven and a New Earth
    21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’[b] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
    kanus-a man nang judgement day?
    si God ray kahibaw bay

    Mark 13:32-33
    New International Version (NIV)

    32 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33 Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come.
    Last edited by rics zalved; 03-10-2015 at 09:25 AM.
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  2. #42
    C.I.A. rics zalved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yhokz101 View Post
    so by this bay, if we love, believe and accept God by faith, we are save na? dli na mo adto sa purgatoryo o impyerno? in short in faith alone?
    according sa bible bay, yes by grace alone, in faith alone, through Christ alone....sola gracias, sola fide, sola Christus

    we are preoccupied man gud ani nga formula
    faith in Jesus + good works = salvation

    whereas it should be
    faith in Jesus+ nothing = salvation (good works is only a result of our salvation), because it is a grace of God nga gipadala niya ang anak sa Ginoo para ipalansang sa cross para lang siya ang himoon nga bayad sa atong mga sala

    pero remember to work out sa gihatag nga salvation ni God sa imoha
    Philippians 2:12
    English Standard Version (ESV)

    12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,
    take note nga work OUT siya dili work FOR kay gihatag naman na sa imoha, ienhance lang, dili ikaw ang mokayod para sa imong salvation

    bay, try unya kung naa kay time visit ug mga worship services sa mga Christian Churches lingaw baya labi na ang messages

  3. #43
    C.I.A. The_JACKAL's Avatar
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    ^^^ Wal diay moy baptism boss?

  4. #44
    C.I.A. rics zalved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_JACKAL View Post
    ^^^ Wal diay moy baptism boss?
    naa man sad kay ang baptism usa na sa results sa imong salvation, unya public declaration na siya nga Christian ka, as per gimention nako dili siya ang means to salvation but a result lang

    importante sad baya na ang baptism pud kay symbol man gud na nga gilumos nimo ang imong old self padulong sa imong new self, kay mura man gud ka ug kauban ni Jesus sa iyang paglubong niya hangtud sa iyang pagkabanhaw mao nga among baptism dili pisik2x lang or yabo2x like sa naandan nato, ang sakto jud kay ilumos jud ka sa tubig

    Romans 6:3-6
    New International Version (NIV)

    3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

    5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin—
    ug usa pa ang baptism kay out of willl na sa taw dili kanang baby pa nga dili ka kabalo pa modecide kay kinahanglan accept first si Jesus, repent, and then be baptized

    Acts 2:38
    New International Version (NIV)

    Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
    ang baby wala pa nay buot para magrepent ug usa pa wala pa na silay sala kay wala pa man na silay kabuot pa, diretso naman na sila sa langit if ever mamatay sila nga bata pa

    Matthew 18:3
    and said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

    Matthew 19:14
    but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”
    Last edited by rics zalved; 03-09-2015 at 06:30 PM.
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  5. #45
    C.I.A. yhokz101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rics zalved View Post
    according sa bible bay, yes by grace alone, in faith alone, through Christ alone....sola gracias, sola fide, sola Christus

    we are preoccupied man gud ani nga formula
    faith in Jesus + good works = salvation

    whereas it should be
    faith in Jesus+ nothing = salvation (good works is only a result of our salvation), because it is a grace of God nga gipadala niya ang anak sa Ginoo para ipalansang sa cross para lang siya ang himoon nga bayad sa atong mga sala
    dli ba in the sense to say that we are saved by grace through faith? And that the faith comes in what we do/act?

    likely in the same manner to say: take for example sa mga rebeldeng "moklo" na mo resort sila ug violence to kill/murder those whom they considered infidels (even innocent children) and wont worry about their act because they have faith in God. And thus believing in God is enough to save them.

    Or: A devout christian by faith, read the bible religiously, say prayers and talk to God, proclaim him in the church that He is his personal savior, but acts differently at home.. pamalikas, panglibak, inom, sugal, buhat ug malay-ay.. but he believes in God, by faith and grace alone he was already saved by His Jesus Christ when died for him sa cross.

    "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them" (Eph. 2:10).

    same to say that, God have called his people, for us as a Christians that He wants us to do good works. Take no claim or take pride because we are meant to do them. However, we must do those works to be with God.

    Dli ta maka attain or maka adto sa langit if we merely say, we have faith. And that we must take into ourselves to prove that faith through what we do. As Christians we are called to do the good works that God calls us to do.

  6. #46
    C.I.A. rics zalved's Avatar
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    sa imong gihatag nga samples bay they have a wrong perception sa accepting the grace ni God, ila man gud giabuse, dili unta na iabuse kay abi grace siya, abusohon na lang pud nila, naay warning pud ana sa Bible

    Galatians 5:13
    New International Version (NIV)

    Life by the Spirit
    13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.
    Romans 6:15
    New International Version (NIV)

    15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means!
    Romans 6:1-2
    New International Version (NIV)

    6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
    therefore dili sila saved kay giabuse nila

    sa second part nimo bay, sakto ka nga God call us to do good works kay God expects us to do that after he gave us the salvation nga seriously giaccept nimo, it is not the faith and works that can save, but it is a working faith that saves

  7. #47
    C.I.A. yhokz101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rics zalved View Post
    sa second part nimo bay, sakto ka nga God call us to do good works kay God expects us to do that after he gave us the salvation nga seriously giaccept nimo, it is not the faith and works that can save, but it is a working faith that saves

    Yes, Faith without works is good as Dead.

    James 2:14-26 New King James Version (NKJV)

    14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by luff101 View Post
    So far sa akong nadunggan wala pay testimony nga naka experience naka adto na ug purgatory.. hehehe

    Heaven ug hell ra man ako na dunggan.. ehehe
    wa manngid sad na sa bible ng porgatoryo....asa kaha na dapita

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by rics zalved View Post
    actually kitang tanan makasasala man jud ug mao na ang nakaseparate nato kay God





    ingon ana kadako ang standard ni God nga bisan usa ka sala nimo, sala na jud tanan so wala jud tay chance nga masave, so we are doomed to death jud, i mean second death kanang hell jud



    pero si God provided a way nga maluwas ta which is through Jesus Christ




    so iaccept si Jesus as our Lord and Savior to be saved





    di naman makabag-o after death

    so mao ni ako nalearn from an evangelical church nga way to salvation nga no need ang purgatory, not good works, not even a religion can save you but it is through Jesus Christ ra jud, because we are saved by grace (undeserved favor) through faith in Jesus, nagpalansang jud siya sa cross para maoy ibayad pirmi sa atong mga sala ug kana mao na ang grace nga gioffer niya sa atoa



    ang evidence pud nga giaccept nimo si Jesus pud kay new life na nimo, so dili ang pagkanewlife nimo ang nakasave nimo kundi ang you are saved to have a new life



    ang evidence pud nga giaccept pud nimo siya kay makahimo ka ug good works, pero dili ang good works ang nakasave nimo kun dili you are saved to do good works



    and also it does not mean nga dili na ka makasala, makasala gihapon ka pero sinning less and less na kung giaccept nimo si Jesus kay sinful nature baya ang tawo, pero assured kay nga si Jesus ang lawyer nimo inig judgment day



    so you will be judged if you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior through faith, in which it is a working faith, not a dead faith
    So you mean even though i have sin luwas japon q in judgement dày?? if reciev nako c Jesus christ.... misken makapatay ka sa kalagot sa imo kontra....hehehe.....

  10. #50
    C.I.A. rics zalved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geremarv View Post
    So you mean even though i have sin luwas japon q in judgement dày?? if reciev nako c Jesus christ.... misken makapatay ka sa kalagot sa imo kontra....hehehe.....
    well depende man pud sa intention nimo kung makapatay ka, kay kung giseriously giaccept nimo si Jesus d man tingali pud ka kapatay ug dali, i mean true faith nimo jud sa iyaha, depende ra jud sa intention basin wala lang nimo toyoa, ang Ginoo ray nahibaw kung unsay naa sa imo heart kung gidawat ba nimo siya heartily
    Last edited by rics zalved; 03-09-2015 at 08:19 PM.
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