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Porgatory


This discussion is about "Porgatory" in the "General Discussions" forums.
Originally Posted by Jhared In a way you are correct but I disagree with your euphimism, its always good to settle concepts with facts rather ...

  1. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jhared View Post
    In a way you are correct but I disagree with your euphimism, its always good to settle concepts with facts rather than use concept to prove another concept otherwise we'd just go around in circles with this thing. I mean of course it is obvious that limbo was derived from mercy and justice and whatnot, but based on facts how was it so?

    The contention that this limbo theory stemmed from the idea of baptism is evidenced by the fact of the Augustine Letters (Epistulae 157) where Augustine, in disproving Pelagius' theory that infants can be saved without Baptism, said that who die without Baptism are consigned to hell. The Church through the Council of Carthage of 418 favored Augustine's view and stated that there is no “intermediate or other happy dwelling place for children who have left this life without Baptism, without which they cannot enter the kingdom of heaven, that is, eternal life".

    So ever since upto katong elementary pata mao na ang gitudlo sa mga skwelahan and other Chatecism centers, that is true.. This is true even until now, even after Ratzinger ended the idea. This is the reason why ang mga katoliko bunyagan jd dayon ang bata nga gamay.
    di ko sure why limbo is deemed as an official teaching by most catholics but it isn't. never has been..mao na ang fact.
    kanang argument ni Augustine was about the importance of Baptism for salvation in relation to Original sin where Augustine was apologetic of and you're right..sa una abi jud nila nga ma imperno jud ang bata without baptism as you can see in Augustine's assertions but that belief(belief kay di paman sound doctrine) has been reformed overtime and while the church only had the reality of original sin and the necessity of baptism as the defined teachings(official)for salvation it also recognizes that the salvific work would only be absolutely known to god. now balik tas mga bata nga nangamatay nga wala na baptismohan? asa man na sila padung nga dunay original sin man? ang theological hypothesis kay mao na ang limbo..still from justice and mercy.

    naka realize ang simbahan nga di maau magsigeg lalis about sa usa ka butang nga di maabtan sa tawhanong kasabutan.. hahaha. personally i don't believe infants without baptism would go to hell when they die.i think if tinuod man gani nga naa juy kaluwasan or if heaven and hell do exist..kung tinuod jud nang original sin...and while baptism is a process that god has insituted on earth for them to be aquired in god's family and makapawala sa original sin..kanang mga bata nga namatay nga wala na baptismohan it is way out of man's reach to define in terms of salvation.
    Last edited by noy; 01-12-2018 at 10:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RayGunz View Post
    Sa ato pa, kinahanglan diayng i-explain ang non-existing?

    How about show me that your porgatoryo exists?

    Name lang sa location asa ta mag meet-up. Gahinan tika ug time plus oras pa gyud. Nahan ka?
    Ug protestant version nga bible (66 canonical books) imong gibasa lagmit non-existing jud.

    Pero sa RC bible (73 canonical books) naa jud nang prayer for the dead.

    Ngano makig meet-up man ka? namaligya ka ug tambal?
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    Quote Originally Posted by WengIA View Post
    one of the reason og nakahatag og dugang nga gap jud na bai noy ang catholic church.. kanang wala ni qualify si Jesus sa messianic prophesies pinakadakong rason ni nila. tan-aw man gud pod sa mga Jews kung christian ka.aw ma under naka sa Catholic/Vatican. daghan man gud gibuhat ang Catholic nga manipulation sa tradition og culture bai noy.. example lang nato bai noy. ang Jews culture pictures art wala na gibawal sa synagogue pero unsa gibuhat sa Vatican nagbuhat silag rebolto instead sa mga pictures lang or unsa pa.tan-awa ang manipulation ilang gibuhat para mahaum sa ilang cultura o nakasanayan nga rebolto2x.. ana lang man gud na mao nay nakaapan sa Catholic church. unya kini pod sa sabakan ni abraham unsa ila gibuhat gimanipulate man gihapon na. gihimong Purgatory2x tahay..
    na hala bai weng..mao man kaha na pero yaw kalimut nga ang hudeyo sa una naghimo pud ug mga remolto kadto pa lang daan sa arc of the covenant o..nay image sa angel nga gipabuhat...kadto pung nangasakit sa plague ang mga Israelites kay gipahimo si moses ug image sa serpent ug pantan-awon didto ang mga napaakan sa halas para maau daw.. hahahaha so much for no making of statues sa mga jews diba? hahaha just saying
    Last edited by noy; 01-12-2018 at 10:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amingb View Post
    How do you know bai nga Divine Inspired na nga book tungod ingon sa Vatican ?
    Kinsa diay bro nag canonized nga Divine Inspired ang 4 gospels (NT) sa bible? Ang mga Hebrew or ang Vatican?
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    Quote Originally Posted by NapoleonBlownapart View Post
    I'm curious, what's the doctrine of original sin in RCC. Protestants have doctrine of original sin but I'm not sure it's the same. Thanks!
    CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Original Sin

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    Quote Originally Posted by noy View Post
    di ko sure why limbo is deemed as an official teaching by most catholics but it isn't. never has been..mao na ang fact.
    kanang argument ni Augustine was about the importance of Baptism for salvation in relation to Original sin where Augustine was apologetic of and you're right..sa una abi jud nila nga ma imperno jud ang bata without baptism as you can see in Augustine's assertions but that belief(belief kay di paman sound doctrine) has been reformed overtime and while the church only had the reality of original sin and the necessity of baptism as the defined teachings(official)for salvation it also recognizes that the salvific work would only be absolutely known to god. now balik tas mga bata nga nangamatay nga wala na baptismohan? asa man na sila padung nga dunay original sin man? ang theological hypothesis kay mao na ang limbo..still from justice and mercy.

    naka realize ang simbahan nga di maau magsigeg lalis about sa usa ka butang nga di maabtan sa tawhanong kasabutan.. hahaha. personally i don't believe infants without baptism would go to hell when they die.i think if tinuod man gani nga naa juy kaluwasan or if heaven and hell do exist..kung tinuod jud nang original sin...and while baptism is a process that god has insituted on earth for them to be aquired in god's family and makapawala sa original sin..kanang mga bata nga namatay nga wala na baptismohan it is way out of man's reach to define in terms of salvation.
    Limbo was just a term to ease the notion, and the church are good to shy away from the concept, they avoid putting a stamp to the theory but they likewise allow for it to propagate. By putting the matter on the hands of the theologians the church is just making them like escape goats or something.

    Anyways, saying that limbo was not official i think is wrong, like i said during the Council of Carthage, although the term limbo was not used, still the definition is there when they declared that there is no intermediate or other happy dwelling place for unbaptized children. Hence, the church adopted the idea already ever since until Ratzinger. But truth be told the church still believes in limbo, otherwise why would they allow infants to be baptized?

    Yes true, it is out of our reach, because it is borne out from the "god mythology" (which is even more definitively out of reach) in the first place. In religion, confusion is an inevitable consequence, the one presenting an unexplainable theory likewise has the obligation or duty to explain it, the "just believe" argument does not usually work, well unless you use the "hell" leverage, hahaha...

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    Quote Originally Posted by noy View Post
    So basically the same. I think na misinterpret lang sa mga katigulangan kanang moingon sila nga bunyagan para mawala ang salang panulundon?

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    Quote Originally Posted by necrotic freak View Post
    Kinsa ninyo diri nagtuo nga sure bol najud nga maluwas mo ug malangit dritso isang kamot!

    Kani kaha si @amingb murag sure bol na tingali ni.
    hahaha way kasigoraan bro ... ug matod pa ang kaluwasan naa sa pag-tuo ... ang pangutana asa man ka nag basi sa imong pagtuo ? ug matod pa ang Pagtuo nag gikan sa mga Pulong sa Ginoo .. ug dili basihan ang kaugalingon pagbati ( faith by emotion ) ..
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    Quote Originally Posted by necrotic freak View Post
    Kinsa diay bro nag canonized nga Divine Inspired ang 4 gospels (NT) sa bible? Ang mga Hebrew or ang Vatican?
    mao lagi to ang nag first Canonized katong Men of Great Assembly kana nga time buhi pato katong uban prophets sila nag Canonized anang Torah ( Hebrew Bible - old testament ) .. nag discuss man gud me ani about Apocrypha nga wala nila gi apil ani nga council.

    daghan question kinsa nag canonized anang New Testament ug kinsa ang valid ani nila ... Anyway parihas raman tanan ang Books sa New Testament since it was first canonized kuno until sa canonizaton sa Vatican Council ...
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    Mao ni ang Dapat unsay naa sa Hebrew Bible ...

    Luke 24:44New International Version (NIV)
    44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

    1. The Law (Torah)
    2. The Prophets (Neviim)
    3. The Writings[Psalms] (Kethubim)

    This tells us that Jesus was preaching with the Hebrew Bible, which does not include any of the Apocryphal books.

    Mao na ang mga Protestant 66 Book rajud na wala gi apil ang 11 or 12 Apocryphal kay wala na ma sulod sa gi ingon ni Christ ....


    So kanang Purgatory naa man nas Maccabees nga apocryphal books so therefore kami non catholics dili mo tuo anang Purgatory ...

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