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Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?


This discussion is about "Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?" in the "General Discussions" forums.
Originally Posted by Liberal_Tears so when someone sits and believed in God, does that specific act constitute a form of good works? i don't know. ...

  1. #3101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberal_Tears View Post
    so when someone sits and believed in God, does that specific act constitute a form of good works?

    i don't know. to some christian denominations that may be enough. at the same time, i think we can both agree that it's kid'a stupid to say that one believes in a personal god and does nothing about the faith he/she has. moreover, i think it's even more stupid if god would save that person just because that person professes faith in him. it takes a lot more than just saying "i believe". what do you think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ComeToPapa View Post
    If faith is needed to be saved then anyone born before Christ, babies/todlers/fetuses died of natural causes or those people who just haven't heard of him surely went to eternal torture of no fault of their own. Sad life.
    Theres a Law for people who lived before Jesus, theres a law for people before moses and abraham. Theres a separate law for people who did not hear about Jesus in their whole lifespan. its in the Bible.

    The Christian God is a Fair God

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    Quote Originally Posted by noy View Post
    i don't know. to some christian denominations that may be enough. at the same time, i think we can both agree that it's kid'a stupid to say that one believes in a personal god and does nothing about the faith he/she has. moreover, i think it's even more stupid if god would save that person just because that person professes faith in him. it takes a lot more than just saying "i believe". what do you think?
    Its Not a question of NOT doing anything Good. Its a Question of - What if you dont have the Physical Capacity to Do good works after you Accepted God - which is a real scenario.

    One good example is the Person with Jesus when he was crucified, He confess he is a sinner and just Accepted Jesus at that point in his life, and what did Jesus said about his salvation? what Good works did he perform Physically to received salvation? this scenario just contradicts your statement about - "it takes a lot more than just saying "i believe".

    Or those People who are in deathbed previously a non believer but accepted God then died? is God that Unfair not to save that person because he did not perform any Good works?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberal_Tears View Post
    Its Not a question of NOT doing anything Good. Its a Question of - What if you dont have the Physical Capacity to Do good works after you Accepted God - which is a real scenario.
    got some follow up questions though, granting the eternal consequence of sin is real, does this paralyzed person who has faith in Jesus still has the capability of sinning in his thoughts at least?

    do you believe nothing defiled or with the blemish of sin will enter heaven?


    Quote Originally Posted by Liberal_Tears View Post
    One good example is the Person with Jesus when he was crucified, He confess he is a sinner and just Accepted Jesus at that point in his life, and what did Jesus said about his salvation? what Good works did he perform Physically to received salvation? this scenario just contradicts your statement about - "it takes a lot more than just saying "i believe".
    if you're referring to dismas, the penitent theif on the cross. it is not certain that he has seen salvation right after his dramatic profession of faith in jesus..paradise? yes. salvation? hmm..not neccessarily..
    Quote Originally Posted by Liberal_Tears View Post


    Or those People who are in deathbed previously a non believer but accepted God then died? is God that Unfair not to save that person because he did not perform any Good works?
    and do you think saving that person with a lifetime of denying god fair for those who believed in god their whole lives?
    do you believe your god is just?

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    Quote Originally Posted by noy View Post
    got some follow up questions though, granting the eternal consequence of sin is real, does this paralyzed person who has faith in Jesus still has the capability of sinning in his thoughts at least?

    do you believe nothing defiled or with the blemish of sin will enter heaven?


    if you're referring to dismas, the penitent theif on the cross. it is not certain that he has seen salvation right after his dramatic profession of faith in jesus..paradise? yes. salvation? hmm..not neccessarily..


    and do you think saving that person with a lifetime of denying god fair for those who believed in god their whole lives?
    do you believe your god is just?
    pwede mu apil? heheh.. these things boil down to the deepest part of men - our hearts. God sees our hearts whether we are sincere sa atung faith with actions or not.

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    hayaha noh kung ma luas ra ta with faith alone
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    Quote Originally Posted by P-Chan View Post
    hayaha noh kung ma luas ra ta with faith alone
    This Happens when Jesus was Crucified, theres a Man Promised by Jesus to go to heaven even is he did Not do any Good works after he accepted Jesus as savior.

    What can u say about that scenario?

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    Quote Originally Posted by noy View Post
    got some follow up questions though, granting the eternal consequence of sin is real, does this paralyzed person who has faith in Jesus still has the capability of sinning in his thoughts at least?
    Yes, whats your point?

    Thats why Faith is the requirements of salvation because if you consider good work as a Separate REQUIREMENT, then the next question is HOW MUCH work do we need? how to Quantify that requirement? how to Compute it? whats the formula? is it Right Minus Wrong? Where in the Bible is the Formula of good works as a Separate Requirement?

    Quote Originally Posted by noy View Post
    do you believe nothing defiled or with the blemish of sin will enter heaven?
    Salvation By grace Through faith, and that not of yourselves...



    Quote Originally Posted by noy View Post
    if you're referring to dismas, the penitent theif on the cross. it is not certain that he has seen salvation right after his dramatic profession of faith in jesus..paradise? yes. salvation? hmm..not neccessarily..
    Well the Feast of the Ascension describes Jesus is in heaven, then Jesus said to the Man on the Cross that he will be with Him, so Jesus dwell in heaven and the man will be with him.

    anyway, is there a verse where a Man ascended to paradise But was Not eventually Saved?


    Quote Originally Posted by noy View Post
    iand do you think saving that person with a lifetime of denying god fair for those who believed in god their whole lives?
    do you believe your god is just?
    Yes, He is Just. your understanding of Fairness is Different from what Jesus teach - thats why you will always Push for Good works as a Separate requirements.

    In the Teaching Jesus about the Prodigal Son, we can read this:

    “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”
    And we can also read this in the teaching of Jesus about the Lost Sheep:

    I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

    The Concept of Separate requirements of Good works in order to be saved will always Contradict the idea these Teachings.

    There's No coherence of the idea of Good Works as a separate requirements of salvation in MANY of the teachings of Jesus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberal_Tears View Post
    This Happens when Jesus was Crucified, theres a Man Promised by Jesus to go to heaven even is he did Not do any Good works after he accepted Jesus as savior.

    What can u say about that scenario?
    naa ka lain example? if wala then isolated case ra nah.. pabor2x lng.. hahahaha

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Liberal_Tears View Post
    This Happens when Jesus was Crucified, theres a Man Promised by Jesus to go to heaven even is he did Not do any Good works after he accepted Jesus as savior.

    What can u say about that scenario?
    naa ka lain example? if wala then isolated case ra nah.. pabor2x lng.. hahahaha
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    Quote Originally Posted by P-Chan View Post
    naa ka lain example? if wala then isolated case ra nah.. pabor2x lng.. hahahaha
    its a funny question coming from a belief that was based on ONLY one verse - James 2:17 - Which by the way can be interpreted on so many ways.

    heres your example:

    1. Jesus Anointed by a Sinful Woman (Luke 7:36-50)
    "50. Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

    2. Acts 16:31
    They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

    3. Romans 10:9
    that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

    4. John 3:16
    "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

    5. John 5:24
    "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

    6. John 8:24
    "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."


    So many More...

    Question, if Good Works is a SEPARATE requirements of Salvation then WHY its Not even mentioned on those verses? Why it Did Not say - Have Faith and Do A lot of Good Works so that you will be saved?

    If there are 2 Separate Requirements of Salvation, Why Mention only ONE on many of the verses? What does it tells You?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by P-Chan View Post
    naa ka lain example? if wala then isolated case ra nah.. pabor2x lng.. hahahaha

    Now, where is the Verse that says you need to Believed + DO GOOD WORKS so that you will be SAVED?

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