You can be a moral person without God...

[chad_tukes]

Quote: Originally Posted by AmorsoloX ok ra man kung naa motoo or naa dili motoo.. ang walay au kay kanang naay mopugos nimo nga motoo or dili motoo.. pero para nako, ang pinaka walay au kay kanang pagtoo nga dili based on sound logic... like "vote for pres. kawatan or mayor stupido kay maau ni cya nga christiano, or ayaw ipass ang only gwapo allowed bill kay contra ni sa atong pagtoo".. you get the drift..

one good example of this is what we call "in-group morality", wherein, a group of people of the same religion develop morals and sees "outgroups" as hostile. this is explicitly defined in the Old testament when God said, "Thou shalt not kill"---which really meant "Thou shalt not kill the Jews". another example of this would be "homogamy" (marrying somebody of the same religion).

[jamesmusslewhite]

Quote: Originally Posted by AmorsoloX this is stupid.. kung ana man lang gani diay, so mas maau pa wala nalang gi preach far and wide and christianity para dili lisod pag judge priest: believe in christ for he is your saviour, and follow all the church's rules.. those who heard his name but rejected him will go to hell for eternity.. eskimo: father, if i havent heard his name during life till i die, will i go to heaven? priest: yes.. because it is physically imposible for you to have heard without us missionarries.. eskimo: then why d hell do you have to tell me his name? Screw you! langit na tana ko.. in a sliding scale.. there are different standards used.. just like in quantfication there is the english system and the SI system.. you cant say 1cm is equal to 1 inch.. there is no way the catholic church is the universal truth.. Enlightenment- the state of being able to see what is beyond good and evil..

No true Enlightenment is understand what is the good and accepting that which is evil, and choosing not to follow it. Enlightenment is knowledge and not living in a self induced haze. Even Science dictates there is Absolute positive and Absolute negative. Most religions distinguish between an Absolute Good and and Absolute Evil. There is nothing beyond that. Enlightenment and Disillusionment has a fine line dividing them, just as Genius and insanity. You can meditate, burn incense, and chant but it does not change what will be. We live in a battlefield of an anchient conflict between Good and Evil, which is still raging around us. Most are too stupid to even understand that fact. Understand that fact and you then begin to start down the true path of Enlightenment, then make the right choice to decide which side you will stand in this conflict. Most are casualties and are unaware, disillusioned, deceived, and trapped by their ignorance and foolish self pride.

Whether we agree with it or not does not change the judgments. It states clearly ALL MEN will be judged individually. Man will be judged on a sliding scale.

Do you think that a just God will judge those before the salvation of Christ, as those after the salvation of Christ?

That he will judge those who have never heard the word, as those that have received the word?

That those who have heard the teachings of Christ and choose to turn their back to him, will be judged as those that have never heard his teachings?

I am a Born Again Christian and follow Christ's Universal church, I am no member of any man made religious authority. I do not allow man to distort Christ teachings, because I follow the 10 Commandments and the New Testament. I bow before no man, call no man father, prey to no graven images, do no repetitious prayer, and do not seek God in temples, churches, or mosque. I fellowship with men, test everything with scripture, I trust the scriptures for the answers.

I do not judge any man, but only proclaim what is Christ and the Creator's words. You may judge me if you like, but that is your sin and your problem. You can get angry because you do not like God's words, that to is your problem. I only say what is by scripture, nothing more and nothing less. Christ said, "I am the only way to my father, only through me." So if you choose another path or worse choose to ignore his words, then that is between you and him. I am not responsible for the paths a men takes, for I can only be responsible for the path I choose to follow.

I hate no man, judge no man, nor do I think that I am better than any other man. I love man enough to proclaim Christ's words of salvation and warnings by the Creator telling us to prepare ourselves. Judge me if you like, hate me if you like, ignore me if you like, or follow if you choose. Christ offers salvation and is the only one who offers everlasting life. Show me another religion or religious figure who can offer that claim. Follow who or what you choose, but Satan only leads to the pit; and he wants to take as many men with him as he can deceive. Please do not be one of them, that choice is only yours to make. Choose wisely, it is not like your eternal soul depends on it; oh yeah, I guess it does.

[force_driven]

yup it's ok with me also if u don't believe with me or u believe in me....

[AmorsoloX]

Quote: Originally Posted by jamesmusslewhite No true Enlightenment is understand what is the good and accepting that which is evil, and choosing not to follow it. Enlightenment is knowledge and not living in a self induced haze. Even Science dictates there is Absolute positive and Absolute negative. Most religions distinguish between an Absolute Good and and Absolute Evil. There is nothing beyond that. Enlightenment and Disillusionment has a fine line dividing them, just as Genius and insanity. You can meditate, burn incense, and chant but it does not change what will be. We live in a battlefield of an anchient conflict between Good and Evil, which is still raging around us. Most are too stupid to even understand that fact. Understand that fact and you then begin to start down the true path of Enlightenment, then make the right choice to decide which side you will stand in this conflict. Most are casualties and are unaware, disillusioned, deceived, and trapped by their ignorance and foolish self pride.

the geniuses have for many times been labeled as the insane or the heretics.. it is purely because they act on a greater knowledge that other men have failed to see or refused to see.. morality is not science.. it is just an abstract invention of man.. the law of equilibrium applies.. for every action. there is an equal and opposite reaction.. for every positive must be countered by an equal negative..

I believe on a God. but i dont believe on the devil.. my God is both the source of so called good and evil.. he doesnt destinguish one from the other.. all is one with the universe.. the veil of what is so called good and evil obscures the reality.. there was good and evil until man invented so..

there is no such thing as conflict of good and evil.. but there is the conflict of interests between man and man, man and nature..

Most are casualties and are unaware, disillusioned, deceived, and trapped by their ignorance and foolish self pride and false sense of righteousness.. most are just pawns of other men (politicians and religious leaders ex.. CBCP) to be sacrificed to further their own causes..

beyond the good and evil lies reality.. the universe doesnt care of your morals..

there is no such person as a sinner nor a saint.... everybody is just part of the natural order..

[AmorsoloX]

when you let go of your perceptions of what is good or what is evil,

you let go of the biases of morality of actions

you suddenly open yourselves to a world full of options and possibilities..
thus you become enlightened and in harmony with the universe..

[AmorsoloX]

Quote: Originally Posted by jamesmusslewhite Christ offers salvation and is the only one who offers everlasting life. Show me another religion or religious figure who can offer that claim. Follow who or what you choose, but Satan only leads to the pit; and he wants to take as many men with him as he can deceive. Please do not be one of them, that choice is only yours to make. Choose wisely, it is not like your eternal soul depends on it; oh yeah, I guess it does.

its like saying to all the muslims to go **** themselves.... mao ni failure sa religion.. wala gi consider ang beliefs sa uban.. motoo jud nga ilang pagtoo mao jud sakto.. your hurting feelings dude..

oh wait.. follow me and i guarantee everlasting life.. ok.. so, duha na mi, anybody gusto pud maghimo iya religion?.. so what?

the word here is respect.. allow man to practice his own belief.. never impose your own beliefs on others.. what is right to you, might not be so to another.. we have to accept that people come from different walks of life. no man lives life the same way as another..

[jamesmusslewhite]

Quote: Originally Posted by AmorsoloX its like saying to all the muslims to go **** themselves.... mao ni failure sa religion.. wala gi consider ang beliefs sa uban.. motoo jud nga ilang pagtoo mao jud sakto.. your hurting feelings dude.. oh wait.. follow me and i guarantee everlasting life.. ok.. so, duha na mi, anybody gusto pud maghimo iya religion?.. so what? the word here is respect.. allow man to practice his own belief.. never impose your own beliefs on others.. what is right to you, might not be so to another.. we have to accept that people come from different walks of life. no man lives life the same way as another.. Use the whole quote of the text, and not the common trick of a manipulator or a priest, and only chop out just the part you want so you can distort it's meaning into a statement of hate against a specific religion, and then talk about respect. I hate no man, judge no man, nor do I think that I am better than any other man. I love man enough to proclaim Christ's words of salvation and warnings by the Creator telling us to prepare ourselves. Judge me if you like, hate me if you like, ignore me if you like, or follow if you choose. Christ offers salvation and is the only one who offers everlasting life. Show me another religion or religious figure who can offer that claim. Follow who or what you choose, but Satan only leads to the pit; and he wants to take as many men with him as he can deceive. Please do not be one of them, that choice is only yours to make. Choose wisely, it is not like your eternal soul depends on it; oh yeah, I guess it does.

Thank you for taking a statement of truth, and try to twist them into such a vial statement against Muslims. Even using Bold Red Letters. Now show me where my statement is wrong, respond out of intellegence and not from a position of ignorance please. Then you have the right to talk about respect.

The Muslims follow the God of Abraham, who is also the God of Judaism and Christianity. They know of Jesus and relegate him to the roil of a minor prophet, and not the Son of God and their salvation. That is why young Muslims can be persuaded to strap bombs on their persons and blow up people on buses in the act of Jihad suicide. That way they know that they can go to heaven, salvation found within the 164 War Verses. I have read the Qur'an, so please show me the passages that say that their belief guarantees your salvation and a place in heaven, without killing innocent people and yourself in the process. I never saw it, and I looked.

Hinduism only offers a state of Nirvana, the state of non-existence, where you are no longer in a state of being. The Buddha states that he was merely a man who choose to live a righteous life, and offers no salvation. Christ said believe in me and follow me, and you sins will be forgiven, you will have salvation, Grace, and ever lasting life. That is the New Testament. Atheist say ignore all existence of God or try to make up your on concept of what you think God should be, while insulting him every chance you get, that will surely quarantine forgiveness of your sins and salvation.

Satan will have a lot of company in the end, because he has done a good job of confusing the masses. They will tell me I am wrong but they will not read the books, text, or scriptures of the religions to show me where I am wrong. I did, and that is why I can make these statements. Just blind false accusations, non-truths, and positions of bias ignorance is what I get. Never with actual research and facts. That does not hurt my feelings, it just insults my intelligence. It is hard to discuss religions with those who refuse to study them, that is why Atheistic views have so much appeal, you do not have to read or have faith, all you have to do is live in denial all your life. You will be saved by the Flying Spaghetti monster.

Now if that hurts someone's feelings, well than they need to grow up, and learn to discuss God as adults. Atheist say the God of Muslims, Jews, and Christians is a joke; Jesus is a joke; Muslims, Jews, and Christians are jokes for their beliefs; and never is a statement about insulting another person's religion is raised or they worry about hurting someone's feelings. That is strange, twisted, childish, and sad really. You probably believe in the Muslim God as much as you believe in the Christian God; and really have never read the Bible or Qur'an. You probably are an Atheist and insult our God all the time when it suites your needs to voice your belief system; such a pathetic act of cowardice and imposed double standard. You talk about respect and actually have none, and I find that humorous.

Yet when I state respectfully what was written 3,300 years ago proclaiming the coming of Christ; written 1,900 years ago the words of Christ, than I am hurting people's feelings. I am hurting someone's feelings who either disbelieves in God or chooses to follow a newer religion or concept? Well welcome to the real world. Follow what ever you choose, you can pray to the God of Doorknobs if you like, but in the end you will only be a foolish doorknob.

Often the truth hurts those who do not want to hear it.

[schmuck]

The Flying Spaghetti MOnster offers salvation and is the only one who offers everlasting life(+ beer volcanoes and clean strippers ). Show me another religion or religious figure who can offer that claim. Follow who or what you choose.

[kebotDiNaMute]

Quote: Originally Posted by AmorsoloX its like saying to all the muslims to go **** themselves.... mao ni failure sa religion.. wala gi consider ang beliefs sa uban.. motoo jud nga ilang pagtoo mao jud sakto.. your hurting feelings dude.. oh wait.. follow me and i guarantee everlasting life.. ok.. so, duha na mi, anybody gusto pud maghimo iya religion?.. so what? the word here is respect.. allow man to practice his own belief.. never impose your own beliefs on others.. what is right to you, might not be so to another.. we have to accept that people come from different walks of life. no man lives life the same way as another..

thats why we are worshipping a totally different God...

never impose your own beliefs on others..
--- yes this atheist are imposing their belief... and they think they are smarter...

[kebotDiNaMute]

Quote: Originally Posted by schmuck The Flying Spaghetti MOnster offers salvation and is the only one who offers everlasting life(+ beer volcanoes and clean strippers ). Show me another religion or religious figure who can offer that claim. Follow who or what you choose.

Well if you worship a pole dancer I wont contest... you can drink all the beer you like... but i wont follow you on that... its a choice... so that means... WHO CARES?

well thats what athiest are very slow at pickup up... CARE(S)!

if igsoon ta brad, then i know cge ka ad2 hubo2 badlongon tka oi... both ways at least you know i care. I dont have to force you to stop it... i only want to remind you you are doing it wrong.

Going back sa topic... if your spaghetti monster feels the same way as other religion, well at least people want to talk about it that you are wrong... well if you insist... nothing happens... I mistake you got there is to incorporate STRIPPERS WITH RELIGION. tsk tsk tsk... bad idea.

[AmorsoloX]

qoute lang nako ang interesting part.. sayang space tanan ako i qoute..

Quote: Originally Posted by jamesmusslewhite Yet when I state respectfully what was written 3,300 years ago proclaiming the coming of Christ; written 1,900 years ago the words of Christ, than I am hurting people's feelings. I am hurting someone's feelings who either disbelieves in God or chooses to follow a newer religion or concept? Well welcome to the real world. Follow what ever you choose, you can pray to the God of Doorknobs if you like, but in the end you will only be a foolish doorknob. Often the truth hurts those who do not want to hear it.

so are you saying my God is not the right god because he is not the christian God? if people think of your Christ as a doorknob, then you'd be also a foolish doorknob.. wouldnt that logic make Mohammed and other prophets from other religions doorknobs too?..

often the truth hurts those who tailors it the way they want to hear it..

hmm.. so your telling me im going to hell just because i dont have the same belief as you.. tsk tsk tsk.. mao jud ni nka daot sa religion..

Quote: Originally Posted by jamesmusslewhite The Muslims follow the God of Abraham, who is also the God of Judaism and Christianity. They know of Jesus and relegate him to the roil of a minor prophet, and not the Son of God and their salvation. That is why young Muslims can be persuaded to strap bombs on their persons and blow up people on buses in the act of Jihad suicide. That way they know that they can go to heaven, salvation found within the 164 War Verses. I have read the Qur'an, so please show me the passages that say that their belief guarantees your salvation and a place in heaven, without killing innocent people and yourself in the process. I never saw it, and I looked.

so unsa man jud? langit sila or dili? dba dili si christ ila gi follow sa salvation, so sa imung statement before, they're going to hell coz they arent doing it in accordance to your Christ's teachings?

[schmuck]

Quote: Originally Posted by kebotDiNaMute Well if you worship a pole dancer I wont contest... you can drink all the beer you like... but i wont follow you on that... its a choice... so that means... WHO CARES? well thats what athiest are very slow at pickup up... CARE(S)! if igsoon ta brad, then i know cge ka ad2 hubo2 badlongon tka oi... both ways at least you know i care. I dont have to force you to stop it... i only want to remind you you are doing it wrong. Going back sa topic... if your spaghetti monster feels the same way as other religion, well at least people want to talk about it that you are wrong... well if you insist... nothing happens... I mistake you got there is to incorporate STRIPPERS WITH RELIGION. tsk tsk tsk... bad idea.

wala pa ka kaila sa Iyang Noodlyness kebot. the thing about beer volcanoes and strippers is true in FSM heaven.

[AmorsoloX]

Quote: Originally Posted by kebotDiNaMute thats why we are worshipping a totally different God... never impose your own beliefs on others.. --- yes this atheist are imposing their belief... and they think they are smarter...

im no athiest.. i believe on GOD entity... just a different one from yours....

sus, if i were born during the time of rizal.. surely i would be killed by church authorities.. talk about not imposing their belief.. tsk tsk tsk..

like telling us that were going to hell coz lahi amo God not a form of imposing ones belief ontu others...

[schmuck]

Quote: Originally Posted by AmorsoloX im no athiest.. i believe on GOD entity... just a different one from yours.... sus, if i were born during the time of rizal.. surely i would be killed by church authorities.. talk about not imposing their belief.. tsk tsk tsk.. like telling us that were going to hell coz lahi amo God not a form of imposing ones belief ontu others...

exactly!
atheists impose their beliefs and think they are so smart. they don't realize they are going to hell lol

[rcruman]

Quote: Originally Posted by buttmen Then why need a god? Why go to church? Why pray?

Moral came from GOD, a good moral.

Without GOD we are nothing.

28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Acts 17:28

29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.
Ecclesiastes 7:29

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:10

God is GOOD, everything from Him is good.

17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
James 1:17

now the best part, can people say that the GOOD we know is from our own?
If from our own, HOW COME WE HAVE DIFFERENT DIFINITION OF GOOD?
OUR INDIVIDUAL or WE SEEMS its GOOD is DIFFER FROM EACH OTHER IF WE WONT BASE IT FROM GODS WORD?


Peace!