Second Look on Islam

[Malic]

Quote: Originally Posted by bcasabee Hi Malic, Is it true that Islam is both a religion and a government? I had seen an interview on tv about Muslim armed struggles somewhere in Mindanao, they wanted to have an independent islamic state in their area because they want to apply Islamic laws to the independent state they wanted to establish. But this cannot be done under our present centralized government, maybe if we go federal, we can do something about it. But for the meantime, armed struggles will continue in that part of Mindanao, good there is already ARMM. Its like politics and religion mixing up actually. What can you say about this? Thanks.

Some would interpret it that way.

Do you have any idea how the land of mindanao was given to the govt? Dont you know that Mindanao was never conquered by the spaniards,americans and the japanese. What these people are asking is, give mindanao back to them, Honor the promised of the early govt.

I dont want this thread to be political. Its under S&R so lets talk religion. hehe


here is a link...read it! MIAKADODO

[Malic]

Quote: Originally Posted by Luthienne My egyptian muslim officemate told me Mohammad had nine wives. Unsa man gyuy tinuod?

tinood na.

[bcasabee]

I think the issue on ancestral domains is not something religious. I believe it is the right of the original owners to take back what the land grabbers stole from them.
I just want to focus on the issue on the fusion of religion and the state. I even believe that what the US is doing to IRAQ (making them democratic) is not a good idea because IRAQ is an Islamic state from the start, therefore, democratic concepts like freedom of speech and expression is very much contrary to the Islamic culture of that area.
So in your opinion, Is it better to separate the church and the state?

Quote: Originally Posted by Malic Some would interpret it that way. Do you have any idea how the land of mindanao was given to the govt? Dont you know that Mindanao was never conquered by the spaniards,americans and the japanese. What these people are asking is, give mindanao back to them, Honor the promised of the early govt. I dont want this thread to be political. Its under S&R so lets talk religion. hehe here is a link...read it! MIAKADODO

[Malic]

Quote: Originally Posted by bcasabee I think the issue on ancestral domains is not something religious. I believe it is the right of the original owners to take back what the land grabbers stole from them. I just want to focus on the issue on the fusion of religion and the state. I even believe that what the US is doing to IRAQ (making them democratic) is not a good idea because IRAQ is an Islamic state from the start, therefore, democratic concepts like freedom of speech and expression is very much contrary to the Islamic culture of that area. So in your opinion, Is it better to separate the church and the state?

ah okay sorry for some lapses.

No.

[bcasabee]

I think your right, the question is already somewhat political. Ok ra pud kung dili nalang nimo i answer.

[Malic]

Quote: Originally Posted by bcasabee I think your right, the question is already somewhat political. Ok ra pud kung dili nalang nimo i answer.

na answer na nako sir pero lets not stretch na lang hehe.

[Luthienne]

Quote: Originally Posted by Malic tinood na.

Oh ok. I thought I saw you post in the previous pages that Mohammad was a monogamist.

[MojaveKid]

Quote: Originally Posted by MRchurchill Why did the prophet Muhammad peace be unto him, marry a six year old girl? At the Battle of the Trench, why did Muhammad approve the beheading of some 600-900 individuals who surrendered unconditionally after a siege that lasted several weeks? Why did Muhammad tolerate slavery?

The prophet Muhammad's reasons for marriage are love, compassion, political. It was not uncommon at that time for Ayesha to get married at such an age.

At the Battle of the Trench, Muhammad agreed that an arbitrator be chosen among the vanquished tribes.
The arbitrator chose death for the whole Qurayza tribe.

Slavery was accepted during those times. Muhammad knew the inequality between the slaves and their masters. In Islam, slaves are treated with kindness and the masters are urged to free their slaves. But lets get this clear ha, Islam does not advocate one to enslave another.

[Hellblazer 2.1]

asalam alaikum,
sadiq malic, why is it necessary for a muslim woman to cover her hair? what is your take about some muslim women who chose not to cover their hair?

[MRchurchill]

Quote: Originally Posted by Malic Sir if you are going to question an ancient culture w/in the context of modern interpretation, we will be in a state of confusion. Now if you are asking these questions and looking for answers w/in the context of that time then maybe i can answer you satisfactorily. So w/c of these criteria does your questions belong?

You are very kind thank you. Please answer me in the context of that time.

Quote: Originally Posted by MojaveKid The prophet Muhammad's reasons for marriage are love, compassion, political. It was not uncommon at that time for Ayesha to get married at such an age. At the Battle of the Trench, Muhammad agreed that an arbitrator be chosen among the vanquished tribes. The arbitrator chose death for the whole Qurayza tribe. Slavery was accepted during those times. Muhammad knew the inequality between the slaves and their masters. In Islam, slaves are treated with kindness and the masters are urged to free their slaves. But lets get this clear ha, Islam does not advocate one to enslave another.

Thank you for answering my questions objectively.

1. So Muhammad consummated that marriage out of love, compassion, and for political reasons when Ayesha was nine years old? Doesn't seem so saintly to me.

2. So Muhammad chose to wash his hands when he could have saved lives? Pilate is vilified in Christianity for having done the same to Christ but Muhammad is made the prophet of Islam.

3. So Muhammad tolerated the practice instead of making a stand? Doesn't he advocate dying in defense of the religion? Hold your ground in the name Islam but look the other way when you see slavery.

Sad.

[Malic]

Quote: Originally Posted by MRchurchill You are very kind thank you. Please answer me in the context of that time. Thank you for answering my questions objectively. 1. So Muhammad consummated that marriage out of love, compassion, and for political reasons when Ayesha was nine years old? Doesn't seem so saintly to me. 2. So Muhammad chose to wash his hands when he could have saved lives? Pilate is vilified in Christianity for having done the same to Christ but Muhammad is made the prophet of Islam. 3. So Muhammad tolerated the practice instead of making a stand? Doesn't he advocate dying in defense of the religion? Hold your ground in the name Islam but look the other way when you see slavery. Sad.

Then im going to answer you according to the context of that time.

During that time and according to their custom young marriages are allowed. This custom was already practiced earlier before the prophet Mohammed was born(peace and blessings be upon him). Take for example Mary,: According to the "Oxford Dictionary Bible" commentary, Mary (peace be upon her) was 12 years old when she became impregnated. According to the Priest of Saint Mary's Catholic Church: "Mary was approximately 14 years old when she got pregnant with Jesus. Joseph, Mary's Husband is believed to be around 36. Mary was only 13 when she married Joseph. When she first was arranged with Joseph she was between 7 to 9 years old."


maybe not too saintly to you because you have a different outlook of what a saint should be. David married many wives. Moses killed or participated in the killings of the innocent babies in the name of God. These acts are not too saintly either according to human calculations. One can become a saint not because of what one has done but how one obeys the command of God.

But as ive said its not abnoraml or even morally incorrect to marry a girl of that age, by virtue of their custom and moral standard. Now if you think that your morality is higher than them then thats your own call just dont impose your own version of how things should go.

Cain married his sister, Noah made love to her daughter in laws or was it His sons?(correct me if im wrong pls). These acts are void of any morals if we are to interpret it w/in the light of modern thoughts.



About the battle in trench.

those people were jews who betrayed the treaty between them and the prophet Muhammed(pbuh). Tere was a treaty between the prophet and the Jews to defend the city they were living in together
against any outer enemy but what happened is that they tried to help the prophet's enemy to enter the city from a back door, and according to war laws specially during their time was traitors should be killed. They sold out the prophet's warriors and betrayedtheir treaty, they were major traitors.

Hope that helps.

[Malic]

Quote: Originally Posted by Hellblazer 2.1 asalam alaikum, sadiq malic, why is it necessary for a muslim woman to cover her hair? what is your take about some muslim women who chose not to cover their hair?

asalm alaikum to you brother,

Thats an external sign of modesty, its kinda remind you of your duty before The most merciful,magnificient, Allah.

well, thats their own call and we need to respect that but during worship they should wear their hijab.

why? As ive said, its an external sign for modesty and a reminder to be morally upright before God and men. Hijab will remind you to dress properly, We dont want our women to be a sexual object. And i think most women should wear proper dresses too, to avoid being mis interpreted by males. Your dress speaks of your inner qualities. If wearing sexy dresses showing a lot of skins is how you want to attract men then i should say that you are sending a wrong message to them.

how would you like your men to love you? do you want them to love you because of your body,cos you showed them a lot of skins. what if youll get fat and aged, wht is there left to love? nothing.

Or do you want them to love you for who truly you are. You are a person not a sexual object. your body doesnt mean anything. Your modesty speaks of power and control,it sends a message to guys and the message is "This body is not yours for the taking so love me for who i am, i am not your play toy. I am in control" thats the message of modesty and it starts in wearing your hijab.

[Malic]

Hear this beautiful Islam "call to prayer" video n audio

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EAvlimEYEpQ


you should hear it its so beautiful.


thanks to istorya.net for such a wonderful forum. May Allah prosper you and bless your life and works.

[MRchurchill]

Quote: Originally Posted by Malic snip

I never imposed any version on anyone. Neither did you contradict any of the facts I stated as being false. So at least we are in agreement that they actually happened. By the way lest you get carried away I for one see religion as nothing more than mere superstition. So comparing certain "Muhammad" facts to what shortcomings the icons of Judaism and Christianity did does not make them any less evil. I have no issues with polygamy whatsoever since it served a purpose back then. But you brought it up nevertheless.

"One can become a saint not because of what one has done but how one obeys the command of God."

Muhammad is the prophet so you say. How much of his wrong doings (if they were even wrong at all) were answers to God's call?

you do know the difference between a six year old girl and a 12 year old right? Jews at least did not consummate marriages until the onset of puberty. It was not uncommon for people to bear children in their early teens during that time considering life expectancy was at the late 20's. But to consummate a marriage with someone who is SIX years old who has not yet even reached puberty!? How the hell do you justify sex with a child? Well different principles back then I guess so different set of morals. But didn't the cries of the child at least bother the prophet?

For me Mahatma Gandhi acted more saintly than David, Moses, and Muhammad ever did combined. That is my concept of a saint and not that of David or Moses. David and Moses did what any dictator, monarch, or tribal leader did during those turbulent times. Same goes for Muhammad and newsflash: all three had blood on their hands in the name of God.

The fact remains that these people be their title savior or prophet all acted human because that's what they were.

Points to ponder, please explain: Kill non-believers

4.89 : They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper. <------ Will you kill me too friend should you have the chance? Please don't.