Second Look on Islam

[Malic]

This is a response to what Kalankaras posted. Learn to distinguished orthodoxy and extremism.

Worldwide Muslim Condemnation of Terrorism
By Abdullah, 877-WHY-ISLAM Website - Your Resource to Valuable Information on Islam Associate

Prominent Muslim scholars, organizations and movements, representing the vast majority of Muslims worldwide, have repeatedly condemned terrorism, and have spoken out for peace and justice. Following is a very brief list of such open condemnation of terrorism, including statements issued in the wake of the heinous attacks on September 11.

1. The American Muslim Political Co-ordination Committee (AMPCC), which is a group of major American Muslim organizations, including ICNA (our parent organization), issued a statement on September 11, 2001 condemning the terrorist attacks. The AMPCC statement read in part:

"American Muslims utterly condemn what are vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts."

2. Major American Muslim organizations including the Islamic Circle of North America, are signatories to the following statement released on September 21, 2001.

American Muslim Response to the September Attacks

Released September 21, 2001

We, the undersigned Muslim organizations, support the President and Congress of the U.S. in the struggle against terrorism. Holding to the ideals of both our religion and our country, we condemn all forms of terrorism, and confirm the need for perpetrators of any such acts of violence to be brought to justice, including those who carried out the attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001.

At the same time, in the planning of this "war against terrorism," we call upon the President and Congress to reaffirm the values and principles that make this country great, namely that one is innocent until proven guilty, that all accused have the right to a fair trial, that no one be punished for the acts of another, and that respect for human life is supreme, regardless of race or religion. To this end, we urge the U.S. government not to abandon the due process of law in determining responsibility for the attacks and punishing the guilty parties.

We are saddened by the possibility of military action, as we do not believe that terrorism can be eliminated solely or even effectively through military force. Rather we call upon our leaders to recognize that in order to rid the world of the ugliness of terrorism, our nation must understand its root causes. We hold out the hope that these root causes can be addressed through non-violent means, in a way that promotes peace and harmony between the nations of the world.

Signed:
Afghan Muslim Association (Fremont, CA)
American Muslims for Global Peace and Justice (AMGPJ)
American Muslims Intent on Learning and Activism (AMILA)
Arab-American Congress, Council on American-Islamic Relations (Northern California)
Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA) Bay Area
Islamic Networks Group (ING)
Islamic Society of the East Bay (Union City, CA)
Islamic Society of San Francisco
Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) West Zone
Muslim American Society
Muslim Community Association (MCA)
Muslim Peace Fellowship (Nyack, NY)
South Bay Islamic Association (San Jose, CA)
Zaytuna Institute (Hayward, CA)

3. Prominent scholars worldwide have condemned terrorism as a heresy against Islam. The Grand Sheikh of Al-Azhar University, the oldest seat of Islamic learning, Sheikh Muhammed Sayyed Tantawi, has repeatedly condemned terrorism. He said in the name of Islamic law, he rejected and condemned the aggression against innocent civilian people, regardless of whatever side, sect or country the aggression came from. Prominent scholars of Saudi Arabia, Shaykh Abdul Aziz bin Abdullah bin Baz and Shaykh Uthaimeen, also condemned the terrorist attacks. Every other major scholar of Islam, has come out against the indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians.

Statements of Prominent Islamic Scholars

“Hijacking planes, terrorizing innocent people and shedding blood constitute a form of injustice that can not be tolerated by Islam, which views them as gross crimes and sinful acts"
- Shaykh Abdul Aziz al-Ashaikh (Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia and Chairman of the Senior Ulama, on September 15th, 2001)

“The terrorists acts, from the perspective of Islamic law, constitute the crime of hirabah (waging war against society)"
Sept. 27, 2001 fatwa, signed by:
- Shaykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi (Grand Islamic Scholar and Chairman of the Sunna and Sira Countil, Qatar)
- Judge Tariq al-Bishri, First Deputy President of the Council d'etat, Egypt
- Dr. Muhammad s. al-Awa, Professor of Islamic Law and Shari'a, Egypt
- Dr. Haytham al-Khayyat, Islamic scholar, Syria
- Fahmi Houaydi, Islamic scholar, Syria
- Shaykh Taha Jabir al-Alwani, Chairman, North America High Council

“Neither the law of Islam nor its ethical system justify such a crime."
- Zaki Badawi, Principal of the Muslim College in London. Cited in Arab News, Sept. 28, 2001.

"It is wrong to kill innocent people. It is also wrong to praise those who kill innocent people."
- Mufti Nizamuddin Shamzai, Pakistan. Cited in NY Times, Sept. 28, 2001.

*Ingrid Mattson, a professor of Islamic studies and Muslim-Christian relations at Hartford Seminary in Hartford, said there was no basis in Islamic law or sacred text for Mr. bin Laden's remarks. "The basic theological distortion is that any means are permitted to achieve the end of protesting against perceived oppression."
- Dr. Ingrid Mattson, (President of the Islamic Society of North America)

Conclusion

Muslims stand united in their condemnation of terrorist attacks and any attempt to link their faith to heinous acts that question the humanity of the perpetrators. The vast majority of Muslims worldwide find in Islam, a faith that preaches devotion and good character, not one that calls for hatred towards fellow humans.

For more information, please call 1-877—WHY-ISLAM or email info@whyislam.org

[kalanrakas]

Quote: Originally Posted by Malic oh pls dont blow your own horn. Stop having this delusion that you are better in debates. wait a minute, we are debating? you call this a debate? hahaha Why does the acts of extremists keep on popping in our discussion? I already gave a disclaimer, its an act of Terrorism Islam do not allow that. The chrsitian demons are quoted for comparison and illustration. That in every religion there are always people that misquotes religious principle to suit their own greed and political gains. dont mar it? hahahaha. As if i am really doing something wrong. Defending it, giving some clarifications are acts that can mar Islam,hahahaha. Your interpretations of my statements are really out of its way.

Bro, malic, don't be so dense.

My point is that there are some people who believe that what you call extremism results from the very nature of Islam. That is the one to debunk. You are wasting your time attacking me. What I'm doing is just presenting you with some talking points.

Here is another link: http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles...only_islam.htm and here are some excerpts, in case you are bandwidth-challenged:

1. "Today in the whole world Muslims are apologetic to the entire humankind for the shameful terrorisms and constantly trying to erase this stigma by various apologetic fruitless arguments and excuses. They are trying very hard to disown Osam Bin Laden and other Islamic terrorists by saying "Islam has been hijacked" etc. Very recently, ISNA (Islamic Society of North America) held four days full-fledged program in the Washington, D.C. to disown the burden of doubt in Islam by using same-old apologetic slogans—"Islam is a religion of peace" or Prophet Muhammad is the God’s mercy to earth" etc. These Islamists of North America also tried to fool the westerners (may be they fooled themselves) by quoting a few good/kind Quranic verses. They all simply blamed Western Media for projecting Islam as the religion of terrorism. With much hypocrisy they absolutely hide all those hundreds of hateful/dreadful Quranic verses. My question here is—why any other religionists do not need to do all these hypocrisies like Islamists are doing today?
2. "Jihad" is the most fearful and despised word spoken/uttering throughout the whole world today. This famous word "Jihad" belongs to one religion, and that is—"Islam". My question is—why Jihad belongs to only Islam?
3. Suicide-bombing only to kill innocent human beings is committed by Muslims only. In Palestine-Israeli conflict hundreds of incidents of such heinous suicide attempts have occurred so far. It was quite obvious that all these suicide bombers were brainwashed by the fiery inspirational teachings by Islamic clergy citing various Quranic dictums and hadiths. Among the Palestine citizens there are good percentage of Christian minority who support Palestinian cause and they are also enemy of Israel. Surprisingly, not a single "suicide bomber" could be found who was a Christian. My questions here are—why there was no suicide bomber evolved out of those Christian-born Palestinians? Why it is the only Muslims committing this horrendous act of suicide bombing?

Pure (Pukka) Muslims: all most all the terrorists (John walker Lind, Zakaria Moussai, Padia etc.) so far arrested or known to the authority are very pure and devoutly good practicing bearded Muslims. Just last week, Swedish authority has arrested one suspected terrorist from onboard an aircraft who attempted to hijack the plane and crash it to the American Embassy in the Western Europe. Later he was identified as the bearded young Tunisian born devout Muslim by the name Kerim shatty who wanted to go to join the Islamic conference in London. My questions are: Why they (terrorists) could not be from some moderate or not so good Muslim group? Why always terrorist have to be one of those most devout pukka Muslims? What possibly is the obvious indication here? Isn’t it true that any true followers (real Muslim who follows Quran and hadiths) of Islam could be a terrorist?"



You might have noticed that there are grammatical and punctuation errors. Those are copied verbatim from the site to which that link points. They are not mine, just in case citation is too hard to grasp for you. It was written by Ali Sinna or by some of his friends who did not benefit from a good English education prior to their apostasy from Islam.

And, yes, you can mar a good thing with incompetence. I'm not seeing that you are but at this point you are exhibiting symptoms. Gamay sulti, gamay sayop. Way sulti, way sayop.

[kalanrakas]

Bro, Malic,

If you continue with the way you are discussing things, you will find out that I am not the adversary.

[Malic]

Quote: Originally Posted by kalanrakas Bro, malic, don't be so dense. My point is that there are some people who believe that what you call extremism results from the very nature of Islam. That is the one to debunk. You are wasting your time attacking me. What I'm doing is just presenting you with some talking points. Here is another link: http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles...only_islam.htm and here are some excerpts, in case you are bandwidth-challenged: "Today in the whole world Muslims are apologetic to the entire humankind for the shameful terrorisms and constantly trying to erase this stigma by various apologetic fruitless arguments and excuses. They are trying very hard to disown Osam Bin Laden and other Islamic terrorists by saying "Islam has been hijacked" etc. Very recently, ISNA (Islamic Society of North America) held four days full-fledged program in the Washington, D.C. to disown the burden of doubt in Islam by using same-old apologetic slogans—"Islam is a religion of peace" or Prophet Muhammad is the God’s mercy to earth" etc. These Islamists of North America also tried to fool the westerners (may be they fooled themselves) by quoting a few good/kind Quranic verses. They all simply blamed Western Media for projecting Islam as the religion of terrorism. With much hypocrisy they absolutely hide all those hundreds of hateful/dreadful Quranic verses. My question here is—why any other religionists do not need to do all these hypocrisies like Islamists are doing today? "Jihad" is the most fearful and despised word spoken/uttering throughout the whole world today. This famous word "Jihad" belongs to one religion, and that is—"Islam". My question is—why Jihad belongs to only Islam? Suicide-bombing only to kill innocent human beings is committed by Muslims only. In Palestine-Israeli conflict hundreds of incidents of such heinous suicide attempts have occurred so far. It was quite obvious that all these suicide bombers were brainwashed by the fiery inspirational teachings by Islamic clergy citing various Quranic dictums and hadiths. Among the Palestine citizens there are good percentage of Christian minority who support Palestinian cause and they are also enemy of Israel. Surprisingly, not a single "suicide bomber" could be found who was a Christian. My questions here are—why there was no suicide bomber evolved out of those Christian-born Palestinians? Why it is the only Muslims committing this horrendous act of suicide bombing? Pure (Pukka) Muslims: all most all the terrorists (John walker Lind, Zakaria Moussai, Padia etc.) so far arrested or known to the authority are very pure and devoutly good practicing bearded Muslims. Just last week, Swedish authority has arrested one suspected terrorist from onboard an aircraft who attempted to hijack the plane and crash it to the American Embassy in the Western Europe. Later he was identified as the bearded young Tunisian born devout Muslim by the name Kerim shatty who wanted to go to join the Islamic conference in London. My questions are: Why they (terrorists) could not be from some moderate or not so good Muslim group? Why always terrorist have to be one of those most devout pukka Muslims? What possibly is the obvious indication here? Isn’t it true that any true followers (real Muslim who follows Quran and hadiths) of Islam could be a terrorist?" You might have noticed that there are grammatical and punctuation errors. Those are copied verbatim from the site to which that link points. They are not mine, just in case citation is too hard to grasp for you. It was written by Ali Sinna or by some of his friends who did not benefit from a good English education prior to their apostasy from Islam. And, yes, you can mar a good thing with incompetence. I'm not seeing that you are but at this point you are exhibiting symptoms. Gamay sulti, gamay sayop. Way sulti, way sayop.

incompetence?hahaha.

attacking you? Sir wa pa man gani ka ka point out sa imong accusation nga nag buhat ko ug character assassination, then here again buhat na pod ka ug accusation nako nga i am attacking you. tsk tsk! Ayaw pag accuse ug something nga wa nako gibuhat. kay masuko ang Ginoo ana.


Sir kana imong gi post diha are opinions na nila and they are entitled ana. There is nothing we can do about it. Thats how they see it then so be it. But there are billions of muslims who believe that our religion is a religon of beauty and peace.


mag binisaya na lang ko sir kay EXTREME man kaau imong sabot sa akong english.


Usbon ko... sa paghatag ug clarifications ug apologetics sa Islam faith is according sa imoha nag hatag ko ug "mar" sa Islam? hahaha.

[Malic]

This is a response to what Kalankaras posted. Learn to distinguished orthodoxy and extremism. Syaro di jud ka kasabot ani.

Worldwide Muslim Condemnation of Terrorism
By Abdullah, 877-WHY-ISLAM Website - Your Resource to Valuable Information on Islam Associate

Prominent Muslim scholars, organizations and movements, representing the vast majority of Muslims worldwide, have repeatedly condemned terrorism, and have spoken out for peace and justice. Following is a very brief list of such open condemnation of terrorism, including statements issued in the wake of the heinous attacks on September 11.

1. The American Muslim Political Co-ordination Committee (AMPCC), which is a group of major American Muslim organizations, including ICNA (our parent organization), issued a statement on September 11, 2001 condemning the terrorist attacks. The AMPCC statement read in part:

"American Muslims utterly condemn what are vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts."

2. Major American Muslim organizations including the Islamic Circle of North America, are signatories to the following statement released on September 21, 2001.

American Muslim Response to the September Attacks

Released September 21, 2001

We, the undersigned Muslim organizations, support the President and Congress of the U.S. in the struggle against terrorism. Holding to the ideals of both our religion and our country, we condemn all forms of terrorism, and confirm the need for perpetrators of any such acts of violence to be brought to justice, including those who carried out the attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001.

At the same time, in the planning of this "war against terrorism," we call upon the President and Congress to reaffirm the values and principles that make this country great, namely that one is innocent until proven guilty, that all accused have the right to a fair trial, that no one be punished for the acts of another, and that respect for human life is supreme, regardless of race or religion. To this end, we urge the U.S. government not to abandon the due process of law in determining responsibility for the attacks and punishing the guilty parties.

We are saddened by the possibility of military action, as we do not believe that terrorism can be eliminated solely or even effectively through military force. Rather we call upon our leaders to recognize that in order to rid the world of the ugliness of terrorism, our nation must understand its root causes. We hold out the hope that these root causes can be addressed through non-violent means, in a way that promotes peace and harmony between the nations of the world.

Signed:
Afghan Muslim Association (Fremont, CA)
American Muslims for Global Peace and Justice (AMGPJ)
American Muslims Intent on Learning and Activism (AMILA)
Arab-American Congress, Council on American-Islamic Relations (Northern California)
Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA) Bay Area
Islamic Networks Group (ING)
Islamic Society of the East Bay (Union City, CA)
Islamic Society of San Francisco
Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) West Zone
Muslim American Society
Muslim Community Association (MCA)
Muslim Peace Fellowship (Nyack, NY)
South Bay Islamic Association (San Jose, CA)
Zaytuna Institute (Hayward, CA)

3. Prominent scholars worldwide have condemned terrorism as a heresy against Islam. The Grand Sheikh of Al-Azhar University, the oldest seat of Islamic learning, Sheikh Muhammed Sayyed Tantawi, has repeatedly condemned terrorism. He said in the name of Islamic law, he rejected and condemned the aggression against innocent civilian people, regardless of whatever side, sect or country the aggression came from. Prominent scholars of Saudi Arabia, Shaykh Abdul Aziz bin Abdullah bin Baz and Shaykh Uthaimeen, also condemned the terrorist attacks. Every other major scholar of Islam, has come out against the indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians.

Statements of Prominent Islamic Scholars

“Hijacking planes, terrorizing innocent people and shedding blood constitute a form of injustice that can not be tolerated by Islam, which views them as gross crimes and sinful acts"
- Shaykh Abdul Aziz al-Ashaikh (Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia and Chairman of the Senior Ulama, on September 15th, 2001)

“The terrorists acts, from the perspective of Islamic law, constitute the crime of hirabah (waging war against society)"
Sept. 27, 2001 fatwa, signed by:
- Shaykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi (Grand Islamic Scholar and Chairman of the Sunna and Sira Countil, Qatar)
- Judge Tariq al-Bishri, First Deputy President of the Council d'etat, Egypt
- Dr. Muhammad s. al-Awa, Professor of Islamic Law and Shari'a, Egypt
- Dr. Haytham al-Khayyat, Islamic scholar, Syria
- Fahmi Houaydi, Islamic scholar, Syria
- Shaykh Taha Jabir al-Alwani, Chairman, North America High Council

“Neither the law of Islam nor its ethical system justify such a crime."
- Zaki Badawi, Principal of the Muslim College in London. Cited in Arab News, Sept. 28, 2001.

"It is wrong to kill innocent people. It is also wrong to praise those who kill innocent people."
- Mufti Nizamuddin Shamzai, Pakistan. Cited in NY Times, Sept. 28, 2001.

*Ingrid Mattson, a professor of Islamic studies and Muslim-Christian relations at Hartford Seminary in Hartford, said there was no basis in Islamic law or sacred text for Mr. bin Laden's remarks. "The basic theological distortion is that any means are permitted to achieve the end of protesting against perceived oppression."
- Dr. Ingrid Mattson, (President of the Islamic Society of North America)

Conclusion

Muslims stand united in their condemnation of terrorist attacks and any attempt to link their faith to heinous acts that question the humanity of the perpetrators. The vast majority of Muslims worldwide find in Islam, a faith that preaches devotion and good character, not one that calls for hatred towards fellow humans.

For more information, please call 1-877—WHY-ISLAM or email info@whyislam.org

[Malic]

Quote: Originally Posted by kalanrakas Bro, Malic, If you continue with the way you are discussing things, you will find out that I am not the adversary.

the way you are discussing things? why how i discuss things diay? maminaw kuno ta nimo.

[pal]

nganu pwede man mag-asawa og daghan ang muslim bro?

[MojaveKid]

Jews and Christians in the Holy Qur'an are called 'People of the Book' or those that follow the teaching of the Holy Book. now this Holy Book was given to Man in revelations or installments. the first installment was given to the Jew, The Torah. the next installment was the Gospel. the final installment was the Qur'an.

i do not know any passage in the Qur'an that call for the killing of Jews and Christians.

[MojaveKid]

Quote: Originally Posted by pal nganu pwede man mag-asawa og daghan ang muslim bro?

Islam tolerates polygamy but it is not the norm.

This was brought about during the Battle of Uhud. The smaller Muslim army defeated the larger Meccan army but with great losses. The victory was Phyrric. Many muslim women were widowed. Instead of letting the widows and children fend off for their own..they were 'absorbed' into the house of the surviving men if they wish to.

During those times and still is now, it was the duty of the husband to provide for the needs of the wife and children...thus they were dependent on the man of the house.

Mistresses are strictly forbidden and most widows preferred to be 'other' wife as it is lawful. As a wife, your husband has a legal obligation to you and under the tenets of Islam, you MUST be accorded EQUAL treatment with the other wives.

[janninat]

Quote: Originally Posted by MojaveKid Islam tolerates polygamy but it is not the norm. This was brought about during the Battle of Uhud. The smaller Muslim army defeated the larger Meccan army but with great losses. The victory was Phyrric. Many muslim women were widowed. Instead of letting the widows and children fend off for their own..they were 'absorbed' into the house of the surviving men if they wish to. During those times and still is now, it was the duty of the husband to provide for the needs of the wife and children...thus they were dependent on the man of the house. Mistresses are strictly forbidden and most widows preferred to be 'other' wife as it is lawful. As a wife, your husband has a legal obligation to you and under the tenets of Islam, you MUST be accorded EQUAL treatment with the other wives.

well said mojave, i'll be learning a lot from you...salam

[DrE]

@ kalanrakas,

don't mind the tool nalang bay, with all the chances of a decent friendly discussion you tried to open it seems that there's only 1 point of view that matters here. Apparently tough, honest and critical questions aren't welcome in this thread.

[Soul Doctor]

Islam, Judaism and Christianity are all traced back to Abraham.
So basically they all came from one root.
They just branched out into something else.

[arubinkun]

Quote: Originally Posted by Malic you see Islam have no heirarchy similar to christianity. Nobody can tell them to stop. What moderate muslims can do is give the public a better understanding of the Koran and Muslim beliefs.

aahhh... so that's why... now I understand... i feel bad that because some small extremist would say those kinds of things and would become a generalization of the whole Muslim community if you know what I mean...

thanks Malic... peace be unto you...