What matters the most when hiring a programmer?

[softtouch]

Quote: Originally Posted by BadDudes As far as I know .. a whole lot of good programmers who never finished college but then again there are a lots and lots of good programmers also who also had diplomas .. so basically its not about whos got the brain. Its the reality in our country that most company requires a diploma and maybe there are some who are just lucky enough to have a job without diploma ...

They don't see good people, they only see papers... and that's one of the problems.
I tried to hire last year local programmer, to help me bringing down the flood of programming projects.
Guess what? Many applied, brought a lot of paper, but forgot to bring the knowledge...
Such people, with lots of paper, but no knowledge are useless FOR ME, they do not bring me money.
But that's maybe only me... maybe other prefer "programmer" with lots of paper, and accept that they have top teach them another year basic programming...
The ideal would be both, papers AND skills/knowledge.

[simoncpu]

Quote: Originally Posted by estoyra those lucky 1s will stay as programmers with no room for promotion... reality bites guys...

There are a few assumptions in your previous posts which I think are incorrect:
1. Programmers or technically-inclined people are happy to be put in a managerial position.
2. Managers are "above" software engineers that's why we must strive to be promoted to become managers. Pfffft.
3. Dropouts cannot effectively lead or design complex systems.
4. Schools provide holistic training.
5. Schools encourage creativity and original thinking instead of training you to become a docile sheep among the herd, following orders without question.
6. Teachers who have never worked in the industry can effectively equip students for the real world.

Quote: @dlanyer77: so wer/wat can u do 2 gain a holistic training?

Challenge yourself and go outside your comfort zone. Read books; you may be amazed at how broad and deep the reading range of competent programmers (college dropout or not) is. If you are lucky enough to have spare money, go travel and see the world.

[BadDudes]

Quote: Originally Posted by softtouch_ph The ideal would be both, papers AND skills/knowledge.

hehehe that would be nice ... I hope we could find one!!

[bigeasy]

Quote: Originally Posted by softtouch_ph Guess what? Many applied, brought a lot of paper, but forgot to bring the knowledge... Such people, with lots of paper, but no knowledge are useless FOR ME, they do not bring me money.

This reminds me of the time that I put out an ad for one position and i got 1500 resumes in return. My boss told me to get it down to 10 before we start interviewing people.

My checklist was...

Overqualified, OUT.
Underqualified, OUT.
No degree, OUT. (sorry, but that's how it goes sometimes)
Live too far away, OUT.

And i still had 300 resumes left. jees...

[dlanyer77]

Quote: Originally Posted by simoncpu There are a few assumptions in your previous posts which I think are incorrect: 1. Programmers or technically-inclined people are happy to be put in a managerial position. 2. Managers are "above" software engineers that's why we must strive to be promoted to become managers. Pfffft. 3. Dropouts cannot effectively lead or design complex systems. 4. Schools provide holistic training. 5. Schools encourage creativity and original thinking instead of training you to become a docile sheep among the herd, following orders without question. 6. Teachers who have never worked in the industry can effectively equip students for the real world. Challenge yourself and go outside your comfort zone. Read books; you may be amazed at how broad and deep the reading range of competent programmers (college dropout or not) is. If you are lucky enough to have spare money, go travel and see the world. so wer/wat can u do 2 gain a holistic training?

That's it! You got it! some of their assumptions is the result of confusion.

About holistic training?
it all depends on the individual bro. there's no authority that says "go there and learn that". being aware on what you really desire made yourself capable of having a holistic training within.

[softtouch]

Quote: Originally Posted by bigeasy This reminds me of the time that I put out an ad for one position and i got 1500 resumes in return. My boss told me to get it down to 10 before we start interviewing people. My checklist was... Overqualified, OUT. Underqualified, OUT. No degree, OUT. (sorry, but that's how it goes sometimes) Live too far away, OUT. And i still had 300 resumes left. jees...

That's is almost the opposite for me... hehe
I do not care the location at all, does not matter for me in the internet age.
For me, results count. Results brings me money...
Degree? I don't care. Good to use as toilet paper for me.

What do you do when your car break down?
You go to the mechanic with a lot of papers, just 1 year on the job or you call your friend which has many years of experience, but never was in a school?
I would call my friend... then I know it will work. Know what I mean?
Btw, that's my personal opinion...

[bigeasy]

This was a few years ago before everything could be done online.
I didn't really set out to use this criteria when hiring but when you have to get 1500 'pieces of paper' down to 10, you have to come up with reasons to get some off the stack.

[javapenguin]

Quote: Originally Posted by softtouch_ph That's is almost the opposite for me... hehe Degree? I don't care. Good to use as toilet paper for me.

Hahaha.. So the applicants might as well take back the papers and shove it in their a$#@s,(just kidding, hehehe) it's going to be used as toilet paper anyway, hahaha.

[simoncpu]

Quote: Originally Posted by bigeasy This was a few years ago before everything could be done online. I didn't really set out to use this criteria when hiring but when you have to get 1500 'pieces of paper' down to 10, you have to come up with reasons to get some off the stack.

Dapat naay pics para ang criteria para sa top 10 applicants kay dapat puros chix...

[javapenguin]

Quote: Originally Posted by simoncpu Dapat naay pics para ang criteria para sa top 10 applicants kay dapat puros chix...

Seems like a good idea, hehehe, but the big problem is most of the really good programmers are boys, diba? hehehe

[simoncpu]

Quote: Originally Posted by javapenguin Seems like a good idea, hehehe, but the big problem is most of the really good programmers are boys, diba? hehehe

I think this is a solution to our problems. If you have 5000 applicants but you only need 20 programmers, just select all female applicants and your problems are solved! Hehehe...

[ simon.cpu ]

[BadDudes]

Quote: Originally Posted by simoncpu I think this is a solution to our problems. If you have 5000 applicants but you only need 20 programmers, just select all female applicants and your problems are solved! Hehehe... [ simon.cpu ]

hmmmmmm interesting .. cge lang try namo na sa amo if ever hehehehehe

[dlanyer77]

Quote: Originally Posted by simoncpu I think this is a solution to our problems. If you have 5000 applicants but you only need 20 programmers, just select all female applicants and your problems are solved! Hehehe... [ simon.cpu ]

sus maresep! kalami kaha no? labi na ug sexy pa jud tanan nga ma hire.

[moz_k2]

Academic background is really a big plus.
At least you got records to prove what you're made of.

But naa pud instance nga ok ra dli graduate.
Ako cousin kay programmer na cya daan before ni eskwela ug IT, pang diploma nalang to nya.
Then na hire cya while still studying, dako pa iya sweldo and position
compared sa mga college graduate niya nga kauban.
Wla japon cya ron kahuman skwela kay dihang graduating na
gipadala sa gawas sa ila company.hehehe
Niuli humana ang graduation.