Mga Cebuano proud ba ni Winston Garcia?

[cdburgh]

Quote: Originally Posted by giddyboy ug bsan short pa ang explanations (pwede pa gani wala), daghan cebuanos ang proud ni w.garcia...that's also a fact.

ang lisod sabton aning argumentoha is ngano man nga nag poll pa man ta kung dili nato i take nga fact ang results sa atong poll.Let us not get too caught up in arguing our individual points and take time out to examine the results of the poll:

OUt of 57 participants as of June 14, 2008 ONLY 21.05% are proud, (12/57) 12.28% is neutral (7/57) and an overwhelming 66.67% is not proud (38/57) . Assuming that this forum is a pretty good representation of the population, then we can draw our conclusions from the numbers above. YOu ended your last comment that daghan ang proud and you said that is a FACT but the big BUT is that is not borne out by the poll results. If you are aware of a poll in another forum or conducting your own survey, then it is safe to say that we have no other FACTS to base our conclusions on other than the numbers above.

[giddyboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by cdburgh ang lisod sabton aning argumentoha is ngano man nga nag poll pa man ta kung dili nato i take nga fact ang results sa atong poll.Let us not get too caught up in arguing our individual points and take time out to examine the results of the poll: OUt of 57 participants as of June 14, 2008 ONLY 21.05% are proud, (12/57) 12.28% is neutral (7/57) and an overwhelming 66.67% is not proud (38/57) . Assuming that this forum is a pretty good representation of the population, then we can draw our conclusions from the numbers above. YOu ended your last comment that daghan ang proud and you said that is a FACT but the big BUT is that is not borne out by the poll results. If you are aware of a poll in another forum or conducting your own survey, then it is safe to say that we have no other FACTS to base our conclusions on other than the numbers above.

kanang poll na2 dire bro, purely for "fun" ra na oi & it has no bearing as to what really (or even close to real) are the sentiments of the Cebuanos (even sa istoryans) regarding WGarcia. AND NEVER jud ka mka assume nga gud representation nana ang 57 voters sa whole cebuano population ky pwerteng hagbonga nana daan sa statistics. kaning poll2x na2 dire, ato ato ra na ginagmay bah ky di mn tanan pud natong istoryans hilig anang politics & current events...

Istorya polls are PURELY for FUN. and that's the purpose...

& when i say "daghan ang proud, that is also fact", i ws just making this logical reasoning based rasad sa imong gisulti nga "daghan ang dili proud as a fact" ky tinuod man btaw gyud imong gisulti. nya kay tinuod lagi, so in effect tinuod pud akoang gisulti...the only underlying question that comes to mind is "asa ang mas daghan"?

to explain further my logic: based on SET THEORY sa math, if u draw up 2 overlapping circles representing one as "proud" & the other "not proud" like a VENN DIAGRAM, u will know what i mean...& if u look closer at the area where they overlap each other, that represents "neutral votes" (and that is also a fact)...

[raul]

Quote: Originally Posted by giddyboy & when i say "daghan ang proud, that is also fact", i ws just making this logical reasoning based rasad sa imong gisulti nga "daghan ang dili proud as a fact" ky tinuod man btaw gyud imong gisulti. nya kay tinuod lagi, so in effect tinuod pud akoang gisulti...the only underlying question that comes to mind is "asa ang mas daghan"? to explain further my logic: based on SET THEORY sa math, if u draw up 2 overlapping circles representing one as "proud" & the other "not proud" like a VENN DIAGRAM, u will know what i mean...& if u look closer at the area where they overlap each other, that represents "neutral votes" (and that is also a fact)...

mathematics nasad ta...hehehe

the nuetral could not be those where the two circles overlap, because they are neither proud or not proud. thus, they belong outside the cirles called the "universal set" pero they can changed from neutral to either proud an not proud. meaning kulang ang diagram nga 2 circles, so mo add ta ug rectangle then adto nato isulod ang 2 circles.hehehe.

and most importantly...i think it is wrong to use the venn diagram in these situation, kay the proud and not proud can never overlap each other. because when say you are neutral, you are not supporting any side or position. so you are not common to those proud and not proud.

in short, majority wins(istorya.net wise lang)..hehehe. smile everybody.

[tinsi]

Quote: Originally Posted by raul mathematics nasad ta...hehehe the nuetral could not be those where the two circles overlap, because they are neither proud or not proud. thus, they belong outside the cirles called the "universal set" pero they can changed from neutral to either proud an not proud. meaning kulang ang diagram nga 2 circles, so mo add ta ug rectangle then adto nato isulod ang 2 circles.hehehe. and most importantly...i think it is wrong to use the venn diagram in these situation, kay the proud and not proud can never overlap each other. because when say you are neutral, you are not supporting any side or position. so you are not common to those proud and not proud. in short, majority wins(istorya.net wise lang)..hehehe. smile everybody.

agree ko sa gisulti ni raul ug cdburgh. And please when statistics is used it is never possible to interview or poll from a whole population. Mismo NCSO sampling ra na ilang gihimo pero nganong NITOO MAN TA? Hasta diay kana sayop kay dili total population. Yes maybe only 57 as cdburgh wrote pero sa karun 59 na, is not the whole population but that is why naay sampling (statistics man kaha ning atong gi istoryahan) dili tawun ko statistician pero mas maayo na lang ning naay gibasihan nga 59 , ang imong FACT NGA DAGHAN GANAHAN asa man na gikan? Naa pod diay laing survey?

LIsod man god nang dili tuhoan ang resulta sa kadaghanan. Kanang mag survey sa TV nga pa texton ka kung asa ka laban dili man na tibook population diil pod diay na angay toho-an? Di na na kinahanglan i-venn diagram uy. Sa pag tan-aw pa lang sa numero (sa bar pa lang klaro na) kung unsa ang majority.

[cdburgh]

Quote: Originally Posted by giddyboy kanang poll na2 dire bro, purely for "fun" ra na oi & it has no bearing as to what really (or even close to real) are the sentiments of the Cebuanos (even sa istoryans) regarding WGarcia. AND NEVER jud ka mka assume nga gud representation nana ang 57 voters sa whole cebuano population ky pwerteng hagbonga nana daan sa statistics. kaning poll2x na2 dire, ato ato ra na ginagmay bah ky di mn tanan pud natong istoryans hilig anang politics & current events... to explain further my logic: based on SET THEORY sa math, if u draw up 2 overlapping circles representing one as "proud" & the other "not proud" like a VENN DIAGRAM, u will know what i mean...& if u look closer at the area where they overlap each other, that represents "neutral votes" (and that is also a fact)...

lisora gyud pukawon aning gamata uy.
klaro na kaayo ang result sa poll, you don't have to be a statistician to know the result. pun-an pa gyud ug complex arithmetic nga dili applicable hahay. if the result do not represent the sentiments of the cebuanos, you cannot deny that majority of the istoryans who have this thread and indicated their sentiments ARE NOT proud of WG "period".

Quote: Istorya polls are PURELY for FUN. and that's the purpose...

purely for fun? really?
i am not quite sure if gpcortes07 who started this thread did this purely for fun.
can you site me the forum rules that Istorya polls are purely for fun?
[/quote]

Quote: & when i say "daghan ang proud, that is also fact", i ws just making this logical reasoning based rasad sa imong gisulti nga "daghan ang dili proud as a fact" ky tinuod man btaw gyud imong gisulti. nya kay tinuod lagi, so in effect tinuod pud akoang gisulti...the only underlying question that comes to mind is "asa ang mas daghan"?

Proud 12 20.34% Dili proud 40 67.80% Neutral lang 7 11.86%
logically, "asa ang mas daghan"?

[giddyboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by raul mathematics nasad ta...hehehe the nuetral could not be those where the two circles overlap, because they are neither proud or not proud. thus, they belong outside the cirles called the "universal set" pero they can changed from neutral to either proud an not proud. meaning kulang ang diagram nga 2 circles, so mo add ta ug rectangle then adto nato isulod ang 2 circles.hehehe. and most importantly...i think it is wrong to use the venn diagram in these situation, kay the proud and not proud can never overlap each other. because when say you are neutral, you are not supporting any side or position. so you are not common to those proud and not proud. in short, majority wins(istorya.net wise lang)..hehehe. smile everybody.

my god! i believe u have a good correction on the venn diagram thingy...gamit ghapon oi pero like u said, dili cla supposed to be overlapping diay...at least ngkasinabot ta dha dapita...yep, majority wins in the "not proud" votes for WGarcia, istorya.net/politics & current events wise lang...

pero di pa rin tapos ang laban. go winston, go! hehehe

[giddyboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by tinsi agree ko sa gisulti ni raul ug cdburgh. And please when statistics is used it is never possible to interview or poll from a whole population. Mismo NCSO sampling ra na ilang gihimo pero nganong NITOO MAN TA? Hasta diay kana sayop kay dili total population. Yes maybe only 57 as cdburgh wrote pero sa karun 59 na, is not the whole population but that is why naay sampling (statistics man kaha ning atong gi istoryahan) dili tawun ko statistician pero mas maayo na lang ning naay gibasihan nga 59 , ang imong FACT NGA DAGHAN GANAHAN asa man na gikan? Naa pod diay laing survey? LIsod man god nang dili tuhoan ang resulta sa kadaghanan. Kanang mag survey sa TV nga pa texton ka kung asa ka laban dili man na tibook population diil pod diay na angay toho-an? Di na na kinahanglan i-venn diagram uy. Sa pag tan-aw pa lang sa numero (sa bar pa lang klaro na) kung unsa ang majority.

ing ani man gud ni cya:

if ur gonna ask any statistician, naay gidaghanon sa samples needed to reach a certain acceptable "significance level" ug kanang gitawag nga "margin of error". basing on SWS surveys, if im not mistaken, they don't interview (at random) less than 1,500 people to get results for a survey intended for something w/in the phils.. even how the random sampling is being made naa sab nay mga standards nga paagi. and the more the samples, the more likely the results will get "precisely" to the "actual" results.

The most common significance level, used to mean something is good enough to be believed, is 0.95. This means that the finding has a 95% chance of being true. now basing sa atong polls, di man gani ta ka compute ana ky kuwang ang data...

that's why if we base the 57 voters sa entire Cebuano population, nya wa pa gyuy standard procedure on sampling, di gyud na mosalir sa statistics. pwede ra ta kaingon nuon nga kung i-base lng sa mga istoryans, it is more likely that majority of istoryans are "not proud" of WGarcia. but even then, we still have to consider that not all istoryans would even click Politics and Current Events forums...

and regarding venn diagrams, it is a tool to provide simple illustration to help compare and contrast two or more items or groups. atong i-illustrate ang istorya poll ha. ang "proud votes" gmay na nga circle. ang "not proud votes" dako nga circle. and as what raul explained, wala ni nag overlap ang duha.

i hope u do get my point.

[tinsi]

Quote: Originally Posted by giddyboy ing ani man gud ni cya: that's why if we base the 57 voters sa entire Cebuano population, di gyud na mosalir sa statistics. pwede ra ta kaingon nuon nga kung i-base lng sa mga istoryans, it is more likely that majority of istoryans are "not proud" of WGarcia. but even then, we still have to consider that not all istoryans would even click Politics and Current Events forums... i hope u do get my point.

Oh yes sir I do get your point ...loud and clear.... that you refuse to accept the results of the poll. That has been what I have been arguing from the very start before you introduced statistics into the picture. Each to his own...

[giddyboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by cdburgh lisora gyud pukawon aning gamata uy. klaro na kaayo ang result sa poll, you don't have to be a statistician to know the result. pun-an pa gyud ug complex arithmetic nga dili applicable hahay. if the result do not represent the sentiments of the cebuanos, you cannot deny that majority of the istoryans who have this thread and indicated their sentiments ARE NOT proud of WG "period".

as i've said, yes, it would be likely that majority of istoryans are "not proud". but we have to consider that walay procedure sa sampling nga gihimo. meaning, kad2 rang interesado sa poll ang ningbotar. we also have to consider that not all istoryans would even click Politics and Current events forums and even vote to a topic like this.

mao nay giingon, napukaw lagi ka knuhay, pero inom sa ug alka seltzer para mawa imong hangover para tin-aw ang huna2x.

Quote: Originally Posted by cdburgh purely for fun? really? i am not quite sure if gpcortes07 who started this thread did this purely for fun. can you site me the forum rules that Istorya polls are purely for fun?

yup. u can ask any of our moderators here and surely u will get the same answer. "Istorya polls are purely for fun". if im not mistaken, that question has been answered na long before sa laing thread.

[giddyboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by tinsi Oh yes sir I do get your point ...loud and clear.... that you refuse to accept the results of the poll. That has been what I have been arguing from the very start before you introduced statistics into the picture. Each to his own...

lagi, to each his own. i respect each opinion but that doesn't mean i can't make my own points.

mao btaw niingon ko nga purely for fun ra ang poll nato (which was already explained by our mods) ky in polls like this, wala man tay basis para mka ingon ta nga dako ang chance nga "believable".

Now assuming sa istorya ra. lagi, makita nga mas daghan ang nibotar sa "not proud", but the thing is, it cannot prove itself that it has a big chance of being believable. that's why i refuse to accept the poll results clearly ky kuwang ang data to make it believable enough. izzatclear? i dunno to what degree u understand this part of statistics but i have it clear as ice.

The most common significant level, used to mean something is good enough to be believed, is 0.95. This means that the finding has a 95% chance of being true. now, how can u prove that this poll is good enough to be believed in when in the first place we don't have data to compute even for the "significance level" man lang?

[godwhacker]

It doesn't matter to me what the poll result is. Ang importante nako ang discussion because it is the idea that counts most. Just like Jesus Christ, He was never popular in his own hometown of Nazareth. He made a difference in the peoples live in the neighboring Gallilee. And He made a big impact when He entered Jerusalem. Niadtu sigurong panahon if you ask the same question but the subject is Jesus probably you would get the same votes. Ug mangutana sa Nazareth kinsa ang Kristo? Moingon lang mga tawo nga AHhhhh kanang anak sa panday?

Wa ko mag-ingon ha nga Winston is like Jesus Christ. But we don't know what is the aftermath of Winston's current doings.

[cdburgh]

Quote: Originally Posted by giddyboy as i've said, yes, it would be likely that majority of istoryans are "not proud". but we have to consider that walay procedure sa sampling nga gihimo. meaning, kad2 rang interesado sa poll ang ningbotar. we also have to consider that not all istoryans would even click Politics and Current events forums and even vote to a topic like this.

how can you say that "likely the majority of the istoryans are not proud of", its very clear that majority of istoryans who have expressed their sentiments are saying that they are not proud of WG. no matter what you believe or justification does not change that fact. you must be blind or pretending to be blind by refusing to accept the facts, maayo pa ang tinuod nga buta makakita sa tinuod.

Quote: mao nay giingon, napukaw lagi ka knuhay, pero inom sa ug alka seltzer para mawa imong hangover para tin-aw ang huna2x.

ako nagmata and can see the facts clearly, naay uban, color blind, number blind or plain blind lang gyud.

Quote: yup. u can ask any of our moderators here and surely u will get the same answer. "Istorya polls are purely for fun". if im not mistaken, that question has been answered na long before sa laing thread.

wa may diay ka sure. it would benefit the istoryans if you can enlighten us by linking the thread where it says the polls are purely for fun.

[giddyboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by cdburgh how can you say that "likely the majority of the istoryans are not proud of", its very clear that majority of istoryans who have expressed their sentiments are saying that they are not proud of WG. no matter what you believe or justification does not change that fact. you must be blind or pretending to be blind by refusing to accept the facts, maayo pa ang tinuod nga buta makakita sa tinuod.

haay. kapoya ning nagmata oi pero galutaw lang gihapon. ako nkakuha ko sa imong pagsabot pero kanang sabota nimo dili pa na mao. ato kunong tagsa tagsa-on ni.

GIVEN:
poll questions - proud, not proud, neutral
sampling procedure - none
scope - all istoryans (supposed to be)

RESULTS:
40 voted not proud
12 voted proud
7 neutral
total 59 voters

ANALYSIS:
of the 59 voters, majority voted "not proud"

significance level (or level of "believability") - no data
margin of error - no data
any further analysis - no data

CONCLUSION:
the data analysis cannot conclude that the poll results is representative of the whole istoryan population, much more with the whole Cebuano population. sa laktod nga istorya, ato2x ra ni. lingaw2x ra ni (in english, ours ours only. purely for fun)

so if u haven't gone thru statistics course, no matter how i explain it in simple terms, di gyud ka kashabot. mao nay saktong giingon nga BLIND.

Quote: Originally Posted by cdburgh wa may diay ka sure. it would benefit the istoryans if you can enlighten us by linking the thread where it says the polls are purely for fun.

unsa may walay sure ana? ky "purely for fun" ra ang atoang poll? mao btaw ko niingon nga ato ato ra ni sa mga Politics&Current events istoryans ug dili sa tibuok istoryan population. get the difference?

unya i wl correct myself, dili diay to thread ang explanation nga "purely for fun" ra ang mga poll dre. it was a PM i rcvd from one of our mods very long time ago. and in effect na mentioned nani sa usa ka thread dire. i can't remember exactly but ang poll man cguro toh about AKP/TGP.

to cite an example, yahoo polls r similar to our istorya polls. ky niapil mn gyud ko ato sauna, naa tuy fine print gbutang below sa ilang page, "yahoo polls are purely for fun". but i guess ila na ning giwala rn ang polls ky it is being abused by a lot by users...& if u still doubt on what i jst said, browse nlng sa Yahoo Answers...

ANYWAY, SO MUCH NA FOR "STATISTICS"...the important thing here is we discussed a lot of things here regarding WGarcia in relation to Meralco (and GSIS). it opened our eyes. it blinked our eyes. it blinded our eyes...etc etc ek ek...hehe

IMHO, talking about WGarcia if proud ba ta or dili seems OVERRATED. instead unta to, maypa focus ta hisgot sa Meralco, other DU's, Napocor, IPP's, & Epira Law ky naa mn gyud dre ang root causes sa blema sa electric power, not WGarcia & his noise...just a thought though...

[godsaint]

Ang kawatan nga nikontra sa parehas niyang kawatan dili angay ipanghambog.

[raul]

Jesus had the right intentions and good guidance, thats the BIG differrence, so there's no way we can site Jesus life as an example...choose other examples.

and the aftermath?hhhmmm...again, i doubt it would be good provided the underlying intentions, i still believe these are short term goals for the people and long term goals for them...walay daghan pangutana, i have explained why already..hehehe

AKO LANG NI PANLANTAW ANI ATONG POLL HA!!!.

cguro mis-interpreted lang ang poll question o ba kaha sayop ang question...hehehe

anyways, if were to stick with the question as citizen of this THREAD(istoryan on politics and current events-wise)..hehehe, and now with its poll added, we could only say(at this time) that the "not proud" is "leading" and that we had our chance to express our own share of views. and cguro if were going to use statistics. i think as "citizen", as of now the poll is confined to this thread lang sa. i'm not sure about that 95% significance level but if thats how they do it, just wait, will get there, considering the ratio of voters since this started, anyways wla may limits until when this poll should end.
and also, i guess the sampling procedure that we have here could be compared to cluster sampling. though unintentionaly, we belong to a certain group which i believed we are qualified to answer the poll. hypothesis, "not proud" are leading by a large margin(66.67% versus 20%). hypothesis are inconclusive man diba? but that cannot deny the current real fact that majority(which by the way are also cebuanos) who knew of this thread and its poll clearly states that there's more(and there's going to be more probably) who are not proud of Wgarcia. that answers the question!!!

and that(to giddyboy), it is wrong to make such conclusion...this poll could last infinitely(until istorya.net exist cguro). but as time goes by (mura kanta..heheh) you will get your data and you may not like it or vice versa kaha...hehehe.
yes, the poll maybe purely out of fun, pero ayaw lang murag i-discredit ang result ani nga poll by insisting on the legalities through statistics kay mura na noun ug nani-ud ka ana, that would'nt be fun anymore..hehehe.