Bible Fanatic

[Existanz]

Quote: Originally Posted by schmuck If Christ did come back, the True Christians™ would probably have him executed. Again.

@bold...maximum opinion bias. Statement simply say: True Christians™ equals bigotry.

This is not the case considering the countless christian denominations (equals tolerance). Last check Pastor Quiboloy still alive and kicking...nobody had yet executed him for his claim (again equals tolerance).

Christian's are united in their stand that Jesus Christ is the Lord that is their faith, even if they fall divided on the knowledge of His Lordship.

Quote: Originally Posted by schmuck Or just branded as another false prophet.

This is reasonable but Christ would have expected it...He urge us to do so in the first place, to barred and guard the gate of our faith. I think as a christian it is not our concern to know what kind of Christ Jesus would be in His second coming but what kind of christian we should be as Jesus would expect from us upon His return (to which we should strive everyday of our existence). We are not the Shepperd but the sheep...it's in the power of the Shepperd to gather His flocks. Christian simply sit still and wait in faithfulness for His promise of return- He will find us.

[regnauld]

The Divinity of Christ is the same as the Divinity of the Ancient masters in the past as well as in the present and future masters!

[schmuck]

Quote: Originally Posted by Existanz @bold...maximum opinion bias. Statement simply say: True Christians™ equals bigotry. This is not the case considering the countless christian denominations (equals tolerance). Last check Pastor Quiboloy still alive and kicking...nobody had yet executed him for his claim (again equals tolerance). Christian's are united in their stand that Jesus Christ is the Lord that is their faith, even if they fall divided on the knowledge of His Lordship.

From what I've seen here, those who claim to be True Christians™ seem to think they have exclusive rights to salvation. You know, that smugness that all other religions/denominations are wrong and theirs is right.
So ok, tolerate the others, they're going to hell anyway.

Quote: Originally Posted by Existanz This is reasonable but Christ would have expected it...He urge us to do so in the first place, to barred and guard the gate of our faith. I think as a christian it is not our concern to know what kind of Christ Jesus would be in His second coming but what kind of christian we should be as Jesus would expect from us upon His return (to which we should strive everyday of our existence). We are not the Shepperd but the sheep...it's in the power of the Shepperd to gather His flocks. Christian simply sit still and wait in faithfulness for His promise of return- He will find us.

Ding ding! What if its the fake Christ and you believed it?
Or what if its the true one, but you didn't believe it?

That's my point here and what I've been discussing with james. You can never know, because as you said, you are only sheep. Sheep that have no way of knowing that the shepherd that comes to get them is the real one or not. It could very well be, the wolf in shepherd's clothing that finds you

[Existanz]

Quote: Originally Posted by schmuck From what I've seen here, those who claim to be True Christians™ seem to think they have exclusive rights to salvation. You know, that smugness that all other religions/denominations are wrong and theirs is right. So ok, tolerate the others, they're going to hell anyway.

Now that is much better...than having to execute someone. I accept I can tolerate other religions but don't expect me to believe they're right, otherwise I could not be a christian. Would Jesus be Christ if He also believes that Zeus and His Father are one?

Quote: Originally Posted by schmuck Ding ding! What if its the fake Christ and you believed it? Or what if its the true one, but you didn't believe it?

Oh, this is easy..Jesus promise that those who believe in Him shall not perish..much more being fooled by the clone messiah..see, chicken..nothing to worry about false jesus only strive what Jesus wanted us to do and believe..the rest is up to Him.

Quote: Originally Posted by schmuck That's my point here and what I've been discussing with james. You can never know, because as you said, you are only sheep. Sheep that have no way of knowing that the shepherd that comes to get them is the real one or not. It could very well be, the wolf in shepherd's clothing that finds you

Yeah, 'you' can never know which is which because 'you' don't believe the real one. Besides why is there a shepherd among the sheep flocks? What does His staff mean to you? Christ said He is a good shepherd and loves His sheep...

[schmuck]

^ lol
if you followed my previous discussion with james, you would realize that even the Jesus you know now, God, the bible, EVERYTHING, could be Satan's great deception. He acknowledged that possibility and took in on faith nalang.
Wala cya kahatag og solid nga tubag to say otherwise.

anyway, on topic of bible fanatics
Q:What happens when Christians(True™?, dunno) follow this verse literally

Quote: Exodus 22:18 (King James Version)18Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

A:
African Children Denounced As “Witches” By Christian Pastors | Abesha Bunna Bet
*Warning*, the video is VERY graphic on this link
Five people suspected to be witchcrafts were bruterly murded in kisii Nyamataro Village | Africa | World News

last time I checked, we're in 2009 already, not in 1609. Bible fanaticism must be curbed.

[Existanz]

Quote: Originally Posted by schmuck ^ lol if you followed my previous discussion with james, you would realize that even the Jesus you know now, God, the bible, EVERYTHING, could be Satan's great deception. He acknowledged that possibility and took in on faith nalang. Wala cya kahatag og solid nga tubag to say otherwise.

The Bible is Satan's greatest deception therefore so is what it says about Jesus Christ. Hmm...dili consistent. Satan can not do something against his nature, likewise in the same manner as God. Can we believe that as people were being garroted to death by their captors had the balls to ask God for their tormentors salvation? Okay here something much simple, can Satan think something good for us?

Quote: Originally Posted by schmuck anyway, on topic of bible fanatics Q:What happens when Christians(True™?, dunno) follow this verse literally A: African Children Denounced As “Witches” By Christian Pastors | Abesha Bunna Bet *Warning*, the video is VERY graphic on this link Five people suspected to be witchcrafts were bruterly murded in kisii Nyamataro Village | Africa | World News last time I checked, we're in 2009 already, not in 1609. Bible fanaticism must be curbed.

African Children Denounced As “Witches” By Christian Pastors
Written by DrEthiopia Headlines, World News Oct 18, 2009

Witch ChildrenEKET, Nigeria — The nine-year-old boy lay on a bloodstained hospital sheet crawling with ants, staring blindly at the wall.

His family pastor had accused him of being a witch, and his father then tried to force acid down his throat as an exorcism. It spilled as he struggled, burning away his face and eyes. The emaciated boy barely had strength left to whisper the name of the church that had denounced him – Mount Zion Lighthouse.

A month later, he died.

Nwanaokwo Edet was one of an increasing number of children in Africa accused of witchcraft by pastors and then tortured or killed, often by family members. Pastors were involved in half of 200 cases of “witch children” reviewed by the AP, and 13 churches were named in the case files.

Some of the churches involved are renegade local branches of international franchises. Their parishioners take literally the Biblical exhortation, “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.”

“It is an outrage what they are allowing to take place in the name of Christianity,” said Gary Foxcroft, head of nonprofit Stepping Stones Nigeria.

For their part, the families are often extremely poor, and sometimes even relieved to have one less mouth to feed. Poverty, conflict and poor education lay the foundation for accusations, which are then triggered by the death of a relative, the loss of a job or the denunciation of a pastor on the make, said Martin Dawes, a spokesman for the United Nations Children’s Fund.


“When communities come under pressure, they look for scapegoats,” he said. “It plays into traditional beliefs that someone is responsible for a negative change … and children are defenseless.”

There...that's makes it clearer. The Bible verse was not the main reasons for the kid sufferings but serve only to buttress something much deeper than their faith. Most of these so called Christians in Africa became christian out of necessity...they really never leave their voodoo behind.

For us who now lived in the 21st century, burning witches is very cruel and barbaric. It is easy to be that judgmental, while we have the luxury of going to school and enjoying all the modernity of technology brings.

Why don't you take a survey and ask any Bible fanatic whether it is really right to burn witches.

Let's start from me, I'm a Christian Bible Fanatic and burning witches is not right even if the Jews saw it fit to condemn people as such to fire.

[Existanz]

By the way, can anyone cite a verse were the Bible tells a certain stories about witch burning..

at least kabalo sad kung naa man.

Kuan pud diay, kining 'Witch' nga term originated from north america which refers to Wiccans- followers of Wiccan religion. Scofield Reference Bible takes out Exodus 22.18 from the Hebrew Scriptures some 1491 BCE- about 650 years before the origin of the Celtic people around 850 BCE. Wicca take some elements from Celtics. Knowing King James and his phobic about 'witches' makes things clearer.

[schmuck]

Quote: Satan can not do something against his nature

You don't know this.

----

But now do you understand the dilemma of the True Christian™?
From their perspective, what they are doing is correct. They are the True Christians™.

But you're also here, saying that they are wrong, they are not True Christians™.

May I introduce you to the No True Scotsman Fallacy.

[Existanz]

Quote: Originally Posted by schmuck You don't know this.

You mean you're sure that Satan can do good that is righteous before God? You see, if he can only just think about that then his repentance is possible. But his nature prevented him that because his is absolute rebellion to God.

Quote: Originally Posted by schmuck But now do you understand the dilemma of the True Christian™? From their perspective, what they are doing is correct. They are the True Christians™. But you're also here, saying that they are wrong, they are not True Christians™. May I introduce you to the No True Scotsman Fallacy.

Frankly, only Jesus can decide who's not christian in the end. Even if they do wallow in logical fallacy as what you are trying to point out must of us agree that there is only one Saviour and it is Jesus Christ- that He is the Son of God.

Like us pinoys, we like bibingka but not all like raspberry bibingka or bibingkang pinaliki hehe...some christian wants to be liberal christian others opt to be conservative...its in their nature to pursue what their spirit wanted them to..still the fundamental remain the same- Only Jesus Saves.

But what are you trying to get at really out of this 'No true Scotman's fallacy?

[schmuck]

Quote: Originally Posted by Existanz You mean you're sure that Satan can do good that is righteous before God? You see, if he can only just think about that then his repentance is possible. But his nature prevented him that because his is absolute rebellion to God.

I got the idea that this Satan dude is very cunning. Possible that he acts righteous to deceive.

Quote: Originally Posted by Existanz But what are you trying to get at really out of this 'No true Scotman's fallacy?

That there are no True Christians™

[jamesmusslewhite]

The True Believers Fallacy - "True Believers are correct, and have no punishment after death, all others can not actually make that claim."
True believers are those that believe the scriptures, follow the scriptures, and obey the laws set down by the scriptures, and will be saved from Final Judgment punishment.
Luke warms are those that say they believe the scriptures, follow the scriptures as they choose, and do not necessary obey the laws of scriptures, and may suffer the Final Judgment punishment,
Poor Christians have only been told what is the scriptures, follow other's interpretations, and really do not know what they supposedly believe, and may suffer the Final Judgment punishment.
Non Believers just do not understand the True believers, can get along with Luke Warms, confuse Poor Christians, and follow anything that supports their disbelief, and may suffer the Final Judgment punishment.

Truth is none are sure that what the believe is true, Non Believers hope they are right, Luke Warms and Poor Christians prey they are right, and True Believers do not question if they are right but would rather pray for the other.

If the others are right then so what, when we die we die, so no big deal for the rest of eternity.
If True believers are right, when we die, it will be a big deal for the others for the rest of eternity.

The True Christian Fallacy, can only be answered in the end, debated until death, and endured for eternity.

[Existanz]

Quote: Originally Posted by schmuck I got the idea that this Satan dude is very cunning. Possible that he acts righteous to deceive.

That could be possible...hell, it's even in the Bible. Damn, even some folks thought he is god- he was jesus. Ohh...he could be the epitome of all politicians hehehe..

"Love your neighbor as you would love yourself." can he really command us to that? Or "If your enemy smite thee in your right cheek give him your left also." Man! if he can't even think like any of these I bet my life his repentance is much surer than mine.

But no, it was Jesus Christ who said that...well, the devil thought that by bringing down God's Law down to man he was victorious...for he is sure that no mortal can surely perfect them all. Well, he surely lose his marbles cause God came down humble as great as He is before Satan's wrath on mankind- nailed it to the cross. Now he's working for the Boss with a tight noose in his neck- deceiving those worthy to be deceived.

Satan never see it coming, for an all powerful and magnificent God to come down from eternity and get trampled upon by man's inequity just for the sake of saving them. You see, this is logical for Satan not to see this coming hehehe...Satan can't think about being humble despite having great powers.

There..that's the proof as to why Satan can't think anything about goodness..He was blinded by his own majesty that HUMILITY is not on his dictionary, or all that constitute as good.

Quote: Originally Posted by schmuck That there are no True Christians™

Oh...perhaps..everybody else is TRYING TO BE A TRUE CHRISTIAN. Now, only a true christian can be saved right? who's judgment could that be?

Who's claiming here that they are that- TRUE CHRISTIAN? certainly no one will claim because it's like putting one's own word into the Lord's mouth...even Jesus doesn't explicitly claim He is God, but still He was put to death because those who believe proclaim He IS..meaning He let people judge for what He is.

Now since, the Bible prophesied that there are those who will be saved in the end- therefore there are TRUE CHRISTIANS, otherwise Christ died for nothing- God can't be a loser in the end even if it seems the Devil is winning now.

So your logic fails Schmuck...Biblically.

[schmuck]

naa man gani ni claim nga ila ang true religion diri. lolz True Christian™ pa kaha?

If your conviction is THAT strong, then all the more mas kuyaw nga what if nailad ra diay ka.
If I was this Satan dude, I'd pretend to be the most righteous deity of all just to convince a whole lot of believers and then screw them in the end.
Like how most Christians believe nga nailad ra ang believers of other religions kang Satan, utro ra pd diay sila nailad.

Unsaon man na ang Christ died for nothing if it was all just for show?

quite possible you know.

[Existanz]

Quote: Originally Posted by schmuck naa man gani ni claim nga ila ang true religion diri. lolz True Christian™ pa kaha?

Hehehe..I'm aware of that but as a christian I prevented myself from being the cause of my brother's occasion to stumble upon. In my view as long as they still teach that Jesus Christ is the only Saviour but still argued with me regarding making sign of the cross is not right is irrelevant for me to accept them as my christian brothers. Christ commanded me to love my enemy how much more than my INC neighbor who abhors my eating dinuguan hehe..simple lang kaayo ni oy, even if they hated me for savoring my dinuguan with puto in the morning they're still my brothers.

Quote: Originally Posted by schmuck If your conviction is THAT strong, then all the more mas kuyaw nga what if nailad ra diay ka. If I was this Satan dude, I'd pretend to be the most righteous deity of all just to convince a whole lot of believers and then screw them in the end. Like how most Christians believe nga nailad ra ang believers of other religions kang Satan, utro ra pd diay sila nailad.

Nyaa..aside from Jesus and the Bible unsa man diay lain deity nga righteous enough to serve mankind than being serve by man bi? A God who eat and dined with the leepers, tax collectors and sinners naa ba diha lain? A God who loves those even who hated Him- including you Mr. Schmuck.

Oh..your're now attacking my conviction hehe..hell man! what are these? they're nothing compared to raging bulls, lions in the pit, stakes and boiling oils that the past True Christians went thru for this faith- still they were steadfast, a testament for the sense in believing in Jesus Christ.

Quote: Originally Posted by schmuck Unsaon man na ang Christ died for nothing if it was all just for show? quite possible you know.

Christ being nailed in the cross as a show? Yesss!!! Correct! It was a SHOW indeed! hehe..

Starring God in Christ showing the world His Love for mankind...

But how do you know? you don't believe in any of that di ba?

[jamesmusslewhite]

Quote: Originally Posted by schmuck ^ lol if you followed my previous discussion with james, you would realize that even the Jesus you know now, God, the bible, EVERYTHING, could be Satan's great deception. He acknowledged that possibility and took in on faith nalang. Wala cya kahatag og solid nga tubag to say otherwise. anyway, on topic of bible fanatics Q:What happens when Christians(True™?, dunno) follow this verse literally A: African Children Denounced As “Witches” By Christian Pastors | Abesha Bunna Bet *Warning*, the video is VERY graphic on this link Five people suspected to be witchcrafts were bruterly murded in kisii Nyamataro Village | Africa | World News last time I checked, we're in 2009 already, not in 1609. Bible fanaticism must be curbed.

True but Bible fanaticism does not account for:
100+ witches killed Indonesia the largest Muslim country in the world.
Three 'witches' killed for cooking pig in northeastern Cambodia which is 95% Buddhist and a growing Muslim population.
News - World: Three 'witches' killed for cooking pig

Seems religion can not totally account for the worlds hatred for and persecution of witches. The witches use fear and intimidation on local populations, and the local populations take revenge. Classic cause and affect. White witches are punished the same as Black witches. Having grown up in Houston which is witchcraft capital of the world, and living next to New Orleans I have a strong understand of witchcraft tactics and practices. Houston, Tx. has the largest population of practicing witches in the world, that is just facts, and never have we had witch burnings in the Bible belt. Philippines is over 90% Catholic and has a large witch population, been many witch burning in the Philippines? The Pastors in Kenya were said to be members of International Franchise church groups, and were probably poorly trained, having a poor understanding of the word, even less understanding of the larger world, and on their own little power trips. A little knowledge combined with empowerment is dangerous in the hands of ignorant men with evil hearts. History is full of ignorant evil men using religion to push their own misguided agendas.

This is fools using fear on ignorance, and ignorance acting out ignorantly. Cause and Effect. Trying to pin it on religions misses the true root of the problem. Telling your neighbor you throw curses at him and his family, may not be such a good idea. Holding a Religious text in your hand while committing a sin, is still a sin.

2 Verses contain the word Witch
Ex 22:18
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. Is a mistranslation caused in the 1500 translation, they translated the word chasaph--which is Hebrew for poisoner-- to mean "witch" instead. The real Biblical passage was about the disturbing crime of poisoning in the Jewish community. When that line was originally written, poisonings were a growing concern. And, in that "eye for an eye" era, the logical sentence for a poisoner was death.

De 18:10There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. It does not say kill them, it only applies they (Hebrew Jews) were not suppose to have them as their neighbors, that their culture was the be free of them. They would tell you to leave if they did not want you, simple..

3 Verses contain the word Witchcraft
1Sa 15:23For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king. No instant death sentence mentioned.

2Ch 33:6And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger. Means you have to deal with God on the issue.

Ga 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Notice hatred follows witchcraft of things God's despises. So were does that leave those that choose hatred to to kill witches?
3 Verses contain the Word Bewitched
Ac 8:9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:
Ac 8:11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.
Ga 3:1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? Notice no references to killing or even punishments, is that not strange since modern Christians think God commands them to murder all Witches. Only ignorant evil people too lazy to discover what is ment by the scriptures could think such a twisted thing.

The original Hebrew text from which the Bible was later translated does not say to kill witches, rather is says that those that murder with poison were to be put to death. Those that kill witches and hide behind the Bible are guilty of "MURDER BY POISON" the use of a poisoned mind is just as deadly. They themselves should be put to death on the charge of 1st Degree Murder. They should be arrested, stand trial for their crimes. I do not care if they think they are a Pope of their religious sect. It is a crime punishable by death, and any death sentence carried out by their government would still be more merciful and compassionate than that they showed their innocent victims. They were not justified in their act, and no white collar should protect them from the punishment they deserve.

Nowhere in those teachings does it say any man has the right to accuse and then kill a witch. To do so you have to ignore God's other teaching to justify the evil of your actions. You can not pick a choose that which make you think makes you right. If you look at the body of the whole text, then you will know you have no right. An evil act is still and evil act in the eyes of our creator, and not be justified by one's attempt to twist the words or the world.