How to stop or solve the poverty in the Philippines?

[unsay_ngalan_nimo]

Quote: Originally Posted by al1974 If people will be earning hyperwage payroll, they will buy at SM or any dept store MORE. More purchase- volume increases, then multiplier effect- economy gets stimulated--- more houses renovated, more consumption of goods, etc. Isn't that what US wants to do in a recession? Economic stimulus? More money at the hands of the consumers, will be good for the economy!

but the number of those who will be buying to SM will lessen also kay dgahan man tak-atak sa trabaho.. then mu-taas sad ang presyo sa uban commodity... balik ra gihapon uno.. ambi nimo daku imo kwarta then gamay ra diay...

[unsay_ngalan_nimo]

mnatulog na gyud ko kay mura tuoyk namna gud ni oi...

eto na lang... at present ang main prob gyud sa philippines kaydaghan waly trabaho then daghan pabuhi.. karon kung ato patas-on ang sweldo mahurap na nga maghanp ng trabahp laol pa pa naging mahirap...

we have many workers less jobs... law of supply and demand.. what happen if there are less jobs and more labourers? labourers are willing to work for less pay...

SMes create jobs... ngayon gusto mo patyain yung mga ganun though hyperwage... so ano gusto mo?

[Tarmac]

Quote: Originally Posted by al1974 Amd I agree with that. Why? some dept stores and fastfood shops here are not paying the right wages and they are way too below minimum but the govt looks the other way because of these establishments closes down, there will be unemployment--- yes, for the mean time, because sooner than later, SM will get into their business, Jollibee, Mcdo, etc will get that business. These LEGAL business sectors follwoing statutory wages will take over.

But the trouble with the above statement is that you are assuming it is the firms that aren't paying statutory minimum that will close. However, some businesses paying wages at or above statutory levels right now won't be able to pay hyperwage levels. Why close them down? What have they done to deserve that? Why force them to move into a business environment that will force them to lay off employees? What have the employees done to deserve that?

What is the guarantee that under the hyperwage environment, people won't be willing to work for less than minimum wage? Our population far outstrips the number of jobs now and jobs won't suddenly pop up when hyperwage is implemented. In fact, by your own admission, unemployment will actually rise in the meantime. People with hungry stomachs cannot wait. Our government cannot afford to feed all of them. Livelihood seminars? Grow food in the backyard? Mura man ug nuclear holocaust, which would probably be more benign (o Fool, hyperbole na ha?)

And finally, your statement exactly proves the point we've been making all along. The only businesses who will really survive and benefit the most from hyperwage in its initial stages are the big ones. SM, Jollibee, McDonalds...

[al1974]

Quote: Originally Posted by unsay_ngalan_nimo hahahaha.. no i dont work for a foreign company but my husband do... and he is not even an OFW... i on the other hand is planning to invest on something while studying law... kay siguro pro-hyperwage ka imo tan-aw your employer is not giving you what you should be earning... hahahaha.... lam mo try mo magbasa ng iba pang libro.. i think Dakota can give you a list... try core-periphery theory.. wallerstein... try reading theories on foreign economic policy... magnda kase kung magbasa ka hindi lang isang view or reason...

you got it all wrong- i am getting a more than modest salary. I got to be a manager at an early age and my wife works as an officer.

I just find the theory brilliant and its plain common sense and logic and makes me ask myself why haven't I thought of that. It did challenged my mental faculty at first but I realized it was a well thought of plan. And I don't mind the author's self-proclaimed and conceited style. I just happen to know Thads and his credentials- hey even his two boys are geniuses.

And your into law school- I wanted law school too but I am just too busy developing home-grown management employees preparing them for the future of our company.

I advocate it and I want people to read it. Even if you don't believe and support the theory, I'd like you to read it. There are a lot of facts that opened my eyes.

[al1974]

ok, lets try selective hyperwage. Lets start with the helpers- say there will be a law that will dictate that maids should be paid minimum wage law. I think that alone will improve the lives of the maids.

How about that?

[al1974]

And lets also say- all emplyess should be paid with the minimum wage. Is that workable? So you still want to defend those who are not paying min wages? Let them close business if they can not follow that.

[Tarmac]

Quote: Originally Posted by al1974 So you still want to defend those who are not paying min wages?

Are you saying I said that?

[al1974]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tarmac Are you saying I said that?

Its a question with a question mark.

[Tarmac]

Quote: Originally Posted by al1974 ok, lets try selective hyperwage. Lets start with the helpers- say there will be a law that will dictate that maids should be paid minimum wage law. I think that alone will improve the lives of the maids. How about that?

Well, now we're finally getting somewhere.

A maid's pay raised to existing minimum wage levels is a lot more acceptable than the tenfold increase in five years espoused by Thads/Fool.

On a side note, we recently gave our driver of one year a large increase after he dropped hints about having three mouths to feed (he makes more than statutory minimum wage by the way). We understood his point totally and were sympathetic. To further ease his burden, we assumed his kids' tuition and school expenses and gave his entire family free medical care. So what does he do? He gets his wife pregnant once again.

[Tarmac]

Quote: Originally Posted by al1974 Its a question with a question mark.

The operative word is "still". Which means you are assuming I defended them before. Please clarify that.

[al1974]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tarmac The operative word is "still". Which means you are assuming I defended them before. Please clarify that.

point taken.

So lets all campaign that all maids must be given minimum wage and all employees should at least earn minimum wage.

[foolonthehill]

Mr Tarmac,

ho ho ho ho!

You are showing your ignorace of facts once again.

I do not know him intimately and show me a post that says this. You are wrongly assuming and pretending it to be true. Just like your other posts.

It is so obvious that you claim to have read teh book but everytime you post, I counter you with text from the book that contradicts your point.

I have the read book many times. The same as Al1974. that is why Al1974 and my answers to your questions are the same which is , read the book first. Bec Al and I know that you are shooting from the hip without reading the book.

Al1974 and I also write the same bec we are quoting and sometimes rewriting from the book.

Maybe you noticed that we find many passages in the book that you havent read before and bec of this you judge that i am bentulan. Wrong again.

You are confusing my familiarity with the book with familiarity with bentulan. disabuse yourself of that idea bec i have never claimed or wrote familiarity with the person of the author.

My familariithy with the book is due to reason that any questions i wanted to ask is written in the book.

Al1974 says the same. its allready in the book well thought of. we may be disciples of the book and the author but i havent meet him but i have read his book and his writing is storytelling.

when i defend him against your hubris that he is 1/4 talking about his self, you are exaggerating and you make it against the author and that is unfair.

i am always agains unfair accusations. and I defend the person who is not there to protect himself. he already exposed himself saying he is not an economist and he can be called a lunatic for this theory

and yet, this is the only theory that helps and looks at the maids or helpers.

you are a businessman, and your way of feeling good about yourself is pitying your driver and giving him a little increase bec u pity him.

what about ur helper. do u pity her too/

hyperwage says, you dont have to pity them. let teh govt raise their min. wages. bentulan says 10x is possible, but im sure he wouldnt mine 2x or 3x.

i understood hyperwage in the first chapter alone, and i devoured the book and followed the arguments, after debating with my colleagues i learned to cut and paste ideas from the book bec the debate are all the same every time
inflation?
unemployment/
retirees?
etc

i doubt if you emailed bentulan himself and ask ur questions directly. i doubt if he even knows we are debating and arguing hyperwage theory.

tarmac, youre failure to read the book makes u think that i and al1974 are very konwlegeable abouit it intimate with the author.

your false conclusion is again showing that u make conclusions without proper research.

read the book and then if u disagree, what is your own solution?

Quote: Originally Posted by Tarmac You should know, Mr. Foolonthehill. You and Thads Bentulan are one and the same, seeing as how you speak for how him so intimately and how personally aggrieved you have been and lashed out at anyone contesting or questioning your theory. The part about devoting half of the book to the author's conceit must've really ruffled you no? That's so pathetic. So, so pathetic. To borrow unsayngalan's term, emo ra kaayo ka. P.S. Please don't accuse me of any inability to see hyperbole or parody because you didn't see that in my earlier posts either. Unless what I said hurt because they had a larger element of truth than you were willing to allow? .

[unsay_ngalan_nimo]

Quote: Originally Posted by foolonthehill Mr Tarmac, ho ho ho ho! You are showing your ignorace of facts once again. I do not know him intimately and show me a post that says this. You are wrongly assuming and pretending it to be true. Just like your other posts. It is so obvious that you claim to have read teh book but everytime you post, I counter you with text from the book that contradicts your point. I have the read book many times. The same as Al1974. that is why Al1974 and my answers to your questions are the same which is , read the book first. Bec Al and I know that you are shooting from the hip without reading the book. Al1974 and I also write the same bec we are quoting and sometimes rewriting from the book. Maybe you noticed that we find many passages in the book that you havent read before and bec of this you judge that i am bentulan. Wrong again. You are confusing my familiarity with the book with familiarity with bentulan. disabuse yourself of that idea bec i have never claimed or wrote familiarity with the person of the author. My familariithy with the book is due to reason that any questions i wanted to ask is written in the book. Al1974 says the same. its allready in the book well thought of. we may be disciples of the book and the author but i havent meet him but i have read his book and his writing is storytelling. when i defend him against your hubris that he is 1/4 talking about his self, you are exaggerating and you make it against the author and that is unfair. i am always agains unfair accusations. and I defend the person who is not there to protect himself. he already exposed himself saying he is not an economist and he can be called a lunatic for this theory and yet, this is the only theory that helps and looks at the maids or helpers. you are a businessman, and your way of feeling good about yourself is pitying your driver and giving him a little increase bec u pity him. what about ur helper. do u pity her too/ hyperwage says, you dont have to pity them. let teh govt raise their min. wages. bentulan says 10x is possible, but im sure he wouldnt mine 2x or 3x. i understood hyperwage in the first chapter alone, and i devoured the book and followed the arguments, after debating with my colleagues i learned to cut and paste ideas from the book bec the debate are all the same every time inflation? unemployment/ retirees? etc i doubt if you emailed bentulan himself and ask ur questions directly. i doubt if he even knows we are debating and arguing hyperwage theory. tarmac, youre failure to read the book makes u think that i and al1974 are very konwlegeable abouit it intimate with the author. your false conclusion is again showing that u make conclusions without proper research. read the book and then if u disagree, what is your own solution?

my friend and I read catcher in the rye... but we disagree on holden's character..

[Dakota]

to foolonthehill,

Earlier someone questioned my creditentials, so I provided them. As I mentioned earlier it is acceptable to criticize the idea but not the person. I would appreciate it if you would practice this.
In regards to my questions asked, they were to provide direction on how to further the discussion on how to eliminate poverty in the Philippines. My doing the root cause anaylsis wont help others. Ive cited examples of some countries that have been successful at lifting themselves out of poverty to economic prosperity. The key is they lifted themselves were not lifted. Devote your time to studying the specifics of how they did it, and perhaps you may find models that may carry over to the Philippines. All countries had two common programs, free trade and capitalism.

I will reiterate my opinion before on HWT, it is a Golden Goose fairy tale. No goverment will increase their citizens salaries xfold just to increase their purchasing power. You could spend from now into the end of your days ranting about its virtures but it will accomplish nothing meaningful. You have a better chance at winning the lottery than having HWT enacted.

[Tarmac]

Foolonthehill,

Rant and rave all you want. Nothing changes. You are still a lousy prophet for Hyperwage and poverty alleviation. And still pathetic. You have all the online charisma of a vat of muriatic acid. I hope you're not like that in real life. Good luck with your life.

Perhaps your self-proclaimed personal poverty has other causes. Start by looking at the fool in the mirror.

Not hyperbole, not parody.