How to stop or solve the poverty in the Philippines?

[foolonthehill]

I heard the author say on Leo lastimosa's morning program, that the controversy and the attacks against Hyperwage Theory, proves that it is an original theory, nobody has thought of it or would like along these lines because it is an idiotic theory according to conventional economics.

He further said, that his worry later on will be that many people will CLAIM to have invented the theory. That many economists will say, "I had this idea before, I discussed this idea in class etc..

But dont forget

everybody is happy to get double wages expense for the 13th month pay

and our doctors are lowering their dignities to work as nurses in the US

and our teachers are toilet cleaners in Singapore

in the Hyperwage countries..

think big, dont think small my friends.

[al1974]

Americans overspend thats why they struggle. On the other hand, immigrants and OFWs have the extra money to send to relatives and families.

And some Americans chose to live here and take advantage of our low wage maids and laborers.

Look at call centers here- aren't they as good as their first world counterparts? But still they are paid too low compared to their counterparts.

Yes Jollibee opened FIRST to other countries with Filipino as base customers to slowly introduce the brand. But take note that Jollibee also purchased brands in Chine where there is no Filipino customer base but demand is evident. Jollibee's long-term vision is to be the no. 1 restaurant in the world serving not just Filipinos. No need to lecture me on Jollibee strategy. I know it better being a part of the company for more than a decade.

[foolonthehill]

Dakota
there are some things you cannot fully explain in a forum, especially a theory that deliberately goes against conventional economic wisdom

Increasing wages of by 1000% as a way of increasing the country's GDP! That is against conventional wisdom.

Come to think of it, would you have thought of a thing like that?

Yet, bentulan arrived at this thought via series of elimination (Sherlock Holmes: what is left no matter how unbelievable is the correct answer).


Over 300 pages of point by point explanation, with a big picture and a small picture, cannot be condensed here.

What you are doing is taking potshots as certain aspects, and even your attacks are full of motherhood economics, speculative economics (currency devaluation; inflation etc, these are just your speculation)

Hyperwage is NOT a new economic order bec all first world countries are hyperwage countries.

Hyperwage Theory merely synthesizes and explains the wealth of nations, and the poverty of nations.

It is more logical than any i have read so far.

We have had low wages for 50 years, did it lower the prices of computers, and the 45% of the economy that we are importing (not sure of the correct percent)

We had low wages, did it lower medicine prices?

Read the book, it will show you the difference between low prices, high prices, and affordable prices.


And Al1974 is right. You have to read the book first.

Quote: Originally Posted by Dakota In all forums, discussions, and debates one should be able to debate issues pointing out the relevant pro's and con's of an idea. Re-directing others to read this resource and that resource is counter-productive. You as the expert on HT should be able to condense and present all your knowledge on this topic in a concise format. This demonstates your knowledge of this theory as compared to others, and others opinions on the same subject. If we all, just said read this read that, then we would all be off reading and not discussing and debating. Demonstrate your passion and excellence in this area and logically debate the points and issues.

[al1974]

I can not convince you all to be pro-Hyperwage but you can not deny the fact that the root cause of poverty here is low wages that is way below survival. It the pay improves to a level beyond the survival level- lives will improve and the poverty line decreases. Currently- the poverty line is increasing and we can no longer even consider that there is still a middle-earner. The gap between haves aand have-nots widens at an increasing rate. Even a 20,000 father supporting a family of three is no longer considered a middle-earner.

Lets just say Hyperwage is improbable, but wage increase to a survival level is doable.

[al1974]

Low wages is a strategy of poverty. It is a solid evidence of badly distributed wealth. This has perpetuated for a long time.

[foolonthehill]

tarmac,
you claim to have read the book?

then this is what scares me - you have read the book and yet you gave us the obviously wrong analysis by the PhD Rational Choice blogspotter.

Does this mean, you didnt understand the chapters which demonstrated why the arguments of Rational Choice blogger is wrong?

What else did you not understand in the book?

but assuming you have read the book,
and assuming you understood it
and assuming you dont agree with it

then you are back to where you were in the first place:
living in a poor country
where the money is with the oligarchs,
while the maids are working at slavery wages,
using the old economic theory of maintaining our low wages which incidentally is Chapter 1 in the book "The Strategy of Poverty"

So, this is the end of the road for you mr Tarmac.

You have done what one should have done: Read, understand, disagree. That's the end of the road for you.

That's if you "understood" and not "misunderstood."

but if you "misunderstood" Hyperwage Theory, there is no end of the road in sight for you.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tarmac And I read the book but it did not answer all my questions either. Just because he dealt with the issue does not mean he is necessarily right. If you think I am wrong, please disabuse me of the notion beyond merely telling me to read the book. Because I already have. .

[foolonthehill]

Vince,
obviously you have not read the book

its a pity

read teh chapter about The Myth of Cheap Countries and see how your commentary below is being minced to the ground.

have your heard of the Hyperwage Affordability Index?

Quote: Originally Posted by Vince Russo Yes, they're LIVING... but struggling to get by each day. Struggling to pay rent, utility bills, gasoline bills (if they have a car), and frequently maxing out their credit cards to try and pay for everything. Is that the life that people here aspire to in order to have a bigger salary? It still equates to poverty, doesn't it? Not being able to afford things? Take your pick of reasons: The salary is too low/the price is too high... What's the difference between "costing too much to buy it" and "not having enough money to buy it"? You're gonna hate to hear this, but a poor person here is probably better off than a poor person in the US. Here, the tropical weather allows you to sleep outside without freezing to death. The tamer culture allows you to be out at nite without being beaten and robbed. There aren't fruit trees everywhere, and no roadside stands selling low cost meals on the streets. You can't slaughter a pig in your backyard and use it for food, either. Personally, if I had had only a few bucks in my pocket, I'd rather take my chances here.

[al1974]

And bythe way- yes retirees will be affected if hyperwage is implemented. but they only represent a fraction of the Filipino population and most of them are dependent of their offsprings as their third world pension can not even fully support them as they are derived from the low salary scheme. With our close family ties here, the offsprings will share part of their hyperwage theories.

For foreign retirees living here with their pensions- they can leave us and go back to their countries if they can not afford living here. Other foreigners who can afford will take their place.

[foolonthehill]

but bentulan DOES NOT agree with these reasons, as he explained in the book. he also wrote an article, Why The Filipinos Are Not Rich.

I understand what he means.

Read Why The Filipinos Are Not Rich from "scribd" he discusses about education, language, corruption, etc..

Quote: Originally Posted by mannyamador The article points out some of the basic causes of poverty: massive corruption and economic mismanagement, poor education. These are the things that have tp be addressed, not "overpopulation" or some other unimportant factor.

[foolonthehill]

With maid's salaries at 10x, and the economic multiplier of say 5x, how many additional billions and billions
of VAT
of income tax
of SSS contributions
of GSIS contributions?

yes, the retirees will be happier bec their benefits will be increased! Brilliant theory!

Quote: Originally Posted by al1974 And bythe way- yes retirees will be affected if hyperwage is implemented. but they only represent a fraction of the Filipino population and most of them are dependent of their offsprings as their third world pension can not even fully support them as they are derived from the low salary scheme. With our close family ties here, the offsprings will share part of their hyperwage theories. For foreign retirees living here with their pensions- they can leave us and go back to their countries if they can not afford living here. Other foreigners who can afford will take their place.

[foolonthehill]

Are these economists one of those who are perpetuating the Strategy of Poverty? come to our low wage country?

The Street Strategist is saying "dont come to our country bec our wages will be $1.50 hour about one-fifth of the wages in the USA."

which do you think is a more logical idea?

Quote: Originally Posted by Vince Russo This was the advice of two economists, Prof. Lourdes Sereno of the Asian Institute of Management (AIM) Policy Center and Dr. Joseph Anthony Lim of the Ateneo University. Sereno and Lim made a presentation last week on the weakest links in the country’s competitiveness as compared to 57 other countries covered by the World Competitiveness Yearbook of 2009.

[al1974]

Quote: Originally Posted by Vince Russo Yes, they're LIVING... but struggling to get by each day. Struggling to pay rent, utility bills, gasoline bills (if they have a car), and frequently maxing out their credit cards to try and pay for everything. Is that the life that people here aspire to in order to have a bigger salary? It still equates to poverty, doesn't it? Not being able to afford things? Take your pick of reasons: The salary is too low/the price is too high... What's the difference between "costing too much to buy it" and "not having enough money to buy it"? You're gonna hate to hear this, but a poor person here is probably better off than a poor person in the US. Here, the tropical weather allows you to sleep outside without freezing to death. The tamer culture allows you to be out at nite without being beaten and robbed. There aren't fruit trees everywhere, and no roadside stands selling low cost meals on the streets. You can't slaughter a pig in your backyard and use it for food, either. Personally, if I had had only a few bucks in my pocket, I'd rather take my chances here.

Yes Vince you want to take your chances here. Of course- from how I see it, you are a foreigner with savings/pension with your hyperwage salary. Your currency is worth whole lot here. BUT on a different scenario, would you chose to be a Filipino raised in Philippines? Earning third world salaries and buying first world items?

[al1974]

Correction- petty crimes abound here in the Phils and not every thing is reported. Its not true that you will not be robbed and beaten at night- even in broad daylight, in a crowded area, it can happen.

That is the product of poverty. That is the product of low wage schemes.

[al1974]

The Philippines is poor because=
-we have resources but are owned by 5% of the population
-because we have very low salary schemes
On the other hand, the Philippines is poor not because of
- political corruption-- even if we have honest politicians, the salary will still be very low
- lack/poor education-- we have a lot of graduates working for low wages. Even if we ALL graduate as first in our classes, the salary scheme will still be the same
- high population-- even if 50% of our population will die tomorrow, we will still be earning slavery wages
- etc, etc

We are poor because of slavery wages. period.

[al1974]

Tomorrow, if our salaries will be increased to a level that can make us LIVE our lives and not just SURVIVE, then we will reduce poverty.

Isn't that agreeable?